He is on a two-way deal with Chicago.That sucks. Where is he now? G-League?
He is on a two-way deal with Chicago.That sucks. Where is he now? G-League?
That must be Christ Koumadje, from Florida State via Chad. He has annoyingly matched up against Tacko a few times in summer league/pre-season/G-league. I was reading Masai Ujiri talking about scouting in Africa and he mentioned that if you go to certain parts of Africa, you will see just 7-footers walking around all the time. He was insistent that NBA scouts had just reached the tip of the iceberg when it comes to talent coming out of Africa, certain tribes are extraordinary tall and will produce much, much more talent once more investments in the game are made.Delaware has a kid almost as tall as Tacko
From what I've seen, Waters gambles a lot and so does Edwards. They are racking up the steals in the G league.Waters made some unreal passes. But he has to improve his defense. He's quick enough to stay in front of his man, but he seems unwilling to take a charge. He's defending from the side, like Rondo did when he didn't give a damn.
It's the contracts. Edwards was considered the better prospect, had a great summer league, and signed a 4-year contract that is mostly guaranteed. Waters is on a two-way deal, making pennies, and can only serve a maximum of 45 days on the big club. They are using him, and Tacko, judiciously for that reason.Obviously the coaches are seeing things in practice that we aren't seeing, but I'm starting to be a bit puzzled why Edwards has gotten so much more of a look with the Celtics than Waters.
Waters looks confident, engaged and should be getting whatever minutes Edwards was getting earlier this season. Carsen needs to work on his 3pt shooting at Maine at the moment.Obviously the coaches are seeing things in practice that we aren't seeing, but I'm starting to be a bit puzzled why Edwards has gotten so much more of a look with the Celtics than Waters. Waters is obviously an inch shorter, but not sure that's meaningful. Edwards looks stronger, but Waters seems to have really quick hands - so defensively, I'd think they are a wash. Waters would seem to bring much more to the table from a ball movement perspective. 3 point shooting Edwards may have an edge, but it hasn't really played out that way. When Edwards gets into games it just seems like he's trying to fire it up as much as possible from wherever he is. I think I'd rather see Waters.
We're talking mostly end of the bench stuff here, so it's not super important.
Maine up 79-69 at the halfI'd rather see Waters playing big minutes in Maine. Those minutes will benefit him more than playing garbage time in Boston. Waters is the better prospect but he's got some developing to do on defense, particularly pick and roll defense.
Are you saying KO wasn't good at Gonzaga? He had a TS% of .675. His PER of 36.2 and OWS/40 = .222. He scored inside and out and had great mechanics on his jump shot.
In fact, it's funny that you mention Jokic because the analysis of Jokic is almost word-for-word what you read about KO. For example:
Jokic might have been the most skilled big man at the Hoop Summit when you consider his outside shooting, but his complete lack of strength and explosion really limit his NBA future. The 19 year old was reportedly very solid in the first two practices, and he showed flashes of that later in the week. He is deadly in the post when he gets a smaller player switched onto him, and is an excellent shooter out to the FIBA arc, even on pick and pops.But it really is hard to see him surviving on the interior in the NBA. Although he somehow weighed in at 253 lbs, he sure doesn’t look it. He is thin, but also has zero muscle definition and can’t jump at all. At 6’11 with a 9’3 standing reach, he still is barely able to dunk even when wide open. And challenging shots is not his forte either; for comparison, look how much higher Towns gets on this dunk despite their similar standing reaches.
Full set of KO stats here: http://www.tankathon.com/players/kelly-olynyk
That's why most of these guys are still in the G-league.Maine up 79-69 at the half
they don't play defense in the G-League
well if they don't play defense in the G-League, why on earth would you say this?That's why most of these guys are still in the G-league.
He's dominating on offense, can get anywhere on the G-League court. He played hard in Q1 and then basically let his teammates get their points the rest of the game. I was in favor of Maine development minutes earlier this year, but Tre's clearly graduated. He's ready to play minutes at the NBA level, BIG4+ need load days over the next month.I'd rather see Waters playing big minutes in Maine. he's got some developing to do on defense, particularly pick and roll defense.
It is entirely a function of the contacts. Waters is limited to 35 days with the Celtics and does not have playoff eligibility. To use him in a larger role than that this year would require a roster move.Obviously the coaches are seeing things in practice that we aren't seeing, but I'm starting to be a bit puzzled why Edwards has gotten so much more of a look with the Celtics than Waters. Waters is obviously an inch shorter, but not sure that's meaningful. Edwards looks stronger, but Waters seems to have really quick hands - so defensively, I'd think they are a wash. Waters would seem to bring much more to the table from a ball movement perspective. 3 point shooting Edwards may have an edge, but it hasn't really played out that way. When Edwards gets into games it just seems like he's trying to fire it up as much as possible from wherever he is. I think I'd rather see Waters.
We're talking mostly end of the bench stuff here, so it's not super important.
Describe substantial since you named Leon Powe. I guess Powe did manage to get a 2nd NBA contract and played a total of 50 games and 2 seasons after his rookie deal expired. I'd say that's a good outcome for both Waters and Edwards.It's the contracts. Edwards was considered the better prospect, had a great summer league, and signed a 4-year contract that is mostly guaranteed. Waters is on a two-way deal, making pennies, and can only serve a maximum of 45 days on the big club. They are using him, and Tacko, judiciously for that reason.
I suspect if they had to do it all over again. Waters would have gotten the guaranteed deal. I'm not giving up on Edwards, though. I think they'll both be contributors and have substantial NBA careers. Ainge did well with these 2nd-rounders, and next year I bet Brad will play them off each other as Doc Rivers did with fellow 2nd-rounders Leon Powe and Big Baby Davis. The competition made each of those players better, kept them motivated, and they both really helped the club on the way to that glorious banner 17.
You have to like what we've seen from Waters in the G-League and the Sacramento game earlier this season. Have the Celtics had a rookie, 2nd rounder that did this well in the development league this quickly?Describe substantial since you named Leon Powe. I guess Powe did manage to get a 2nd NBA contract and played a total of 50 games and 2 seasons after his rookie deal expired. I'd say that's a good outcome for both Waters and Edwards.
Yay?
Jabari BirdYou have to like what we've seen from Waters in the G-League and the Sacramento game earlier this season. Have the Celtics had a rookie, 2nd rounder that did this well in the development league this quickly?
3 months into the season and Tre has been Player of the Month, Player of the Week and just went for 27pts last night. The one game he played legit NBA minutes he was a +20, difference-maker in a 1pt game, where Kemba was out with injuryJabari Bird
Kadeem Allen
Abdel Nader
literally the first 3 names I checked.
so yes. Lots. Fringe NBA players should dominate the G league. I like Waters and think he might contribute but odds are against him doing so in a Celtics uniform.
I'd agree with most players of his ilk (I'm with you mostly wrt Edwards, for example), but Tremont is a weird, specific player and because of that I think he's more likely to contribute some to the Celtics if he does contribute at all.I like Waters and think he might contribute but odds are against him doing so in a Celtics uniform.
It's the G league. The week before, Dragan Bender won player of the week. The week before that, it was our buddy PJ Dozier. I like Waters but what he's doing in the G league means nothing. It means even less for Edwards because Edwards will have a completely different role in the NBA. Waters will more or less have the same role, just in less minutes.3 months into the season and Tre has been Player of the Month, Player of the Week and just went for 27pts last night. The one game he played legit NBA minutes he was a +20, difference-maker in a 1pt game, where Kemba was out with injury
None of those players ever did that their rookie year.
Leon was a key rotation member of a championship team. Had he not blown his knee out (again), he would have had a long NBA career. Good player. Even his injury-shortened career contained many unforgettable highlights, as BH mentioned above. Anyway, Edwards and Waters are capable of hanging around the league for a while. I can envision Edwards having some Eddie House potential.Describe substantial since you named Leon Powe. I guess Powe did manage to get a 2nd NBA contract and played a total of 50 games and 2 seasons after his rookie deal expired. I'd say that's a good outcome for both Waters and Edwards.
Yay?
The Kadeem-Abdel-Jabari Bird draft had such potential.Jabari Bird
Kadeem Allen
Abdel Nader
I think Waters can fill a role no one else on the team can really fill. That may get him minutes to contribute. The same can be said about Edwards too, but he's a one trick pony so it's harder to fit him in if he's not excelling at his one trick. I also think Waters makes Edwards mostly redundant. Any advantage Edwards might have as a shooter gets completely wiped out by his shot selection.I'd agree with most players of his ilk (I'm with you mostly wrt Edwards, for example), but Tremont is a weird, specific player and because of that I think he's more likely to contribute some to the Celtics if he does contribute at all.
The reason is that almost all the question marks surrounding him relate to size and defense. He's going to be able to confidently run an offense, he'll open stuff up off the dribble, etc. The open question for him is whether he'll be able to cope defensively at his size, or if he'll get hunted relentlessly.
He's not going to get taller in the next 5 years, so I think his success at the NBA level is a very binary proposition (one reason I'd like to see him more in real minutes this season, since the team needs to evaluate his defense).
Contrast that with someone like Edwards or Tacko: in addition to seeing whether the defense holds up (not promising so far), you have to hope that the shot falls, that he can be used off-ball, and so on. There are a lot of scenarios in which he puts it all together after 3-4 years and then contributes elsewhere.
Yeah, agree re Edwards: with Waters you get a lot more certainty that his trick will work, especially since it’s not as subject to variance.I think Waters can fill a role no one else on the team can really fill. That may get him minutes to contribute. The same can be said about Edwards too, but he's a one trick pony so it's harder to fit him in if he's not excelling at his one trick. I also think Waters makes Edwards mostly redundant. Any advantage Edwards might have as a shooter gets completely wiped out by his shot selection.
Disagree, the value of the G League is that the competitive nature of it is pretty low and teams don't value winning outside of how it impacts player development. In Europe the quality of competition is lower than the NBA but all of the teams are trying their absolute hardest to win and they are not going to give some green 19 year old a bunch of playing time just because the NBA team that owns his draft rights wants to see some development.G League is fine as a place for these guys to practice and be near the big clubs. But, the quality of the games isn't all that high and not all that competitive.
I bet most guys would develop more playing in Europe.
I don't know about that but I think most guys would benefit more traveling, practicing and getting DNP-CDs with the big club than playing in the G league.G League is fine as a place for these guys to practice and be near the big clubs. But, the quality of the games isn't all that high and not all that competitive.
I bet most guys would develop more playing in Europe.
I've been wondering the same thing (along with probably the entire Celtics front office). Seems hard to believe that the peak of the guy's "NBA career" could be a summer league game against the Cavaliers.What is going on with Arson’s shooting?
Merits mentioning that a big part of Powe's availability late in the draft was said knee injury, which caused him to miss his sophomore year at Cal.As far as Leon Powe, he was playing well/improving in the NBA, especially 2nd/3rd season (age 24/25), but was slowed down by a knee injury. Probably would have done more if it wasn't for that bum knee.
Some guys do have a hard time adjusting to the NBA line; even if they were knockdown shooters in college and regularly shot from well beyond the college line. Buddy Hield and Trae Young come to mind as guys who struggled to shoot from deep during the first half of their rookie seasons, but eventually regressed back to what they were expected to do.What is going on with Arson’s shooting? He’s shooting less than 25% from deep for Maine, even worse than his NBA numbers. Small sample sizes and all, but I’d have thought the G-League, where defense is more of a theoretical concept that an actual facet of gameplay, would be a great place for him to get in some kind of rhythm and build come confidence.