Judging mainly from what I saw of him at LSU, I don’t think so, really. First, to your caveat, I think there’s a good chance Carden would’ve lighting the G league up. But I think Tre has more in common with a guy some people mistakenly give as a Edwards comp - Fred VanVleet. Tre has a great feel for running an offense, Carsen’s a pure 2 in FVV’s body. Tre’s a point guard. He can shoot off the bounce, but he doesn’t have the leg strength to approach Carsen’s range or stamina there, and Carsen’s a better movement shooter, with the strength to set screens. The size, speed and skill level of the NBA is a crazy adjustment, even for guys who dominated high level NCAA ball like Carsen, Grant and Tre did. The G league can’t replicate that.Watching Waters jack 3s off the dribble while also being able to actually do other offensive things and play defense some, I wonder whether he’s closer to being what Edwards is supposed to be than Edwards is.
(Usual caveats about early in their careers and G-League).
The C's will be at home the next 2 games so I'd be surprised if we didn't see any of Waters.Judging mainly from what I saw of him at LSU, I don’t think so, really. First, to your caveat, I think there’s a good chance Carden would’ve lighting the G league up. But I think Tre has more in common with a guy some people mistakenly give as a Edwards comp - Fred VanVleet. Tre has a great feel for running an offense, Carsen’s a pure 2 in FVV’s body. Tre’s a point guard. He can shoot off the bounce, but he doesn’t have the leg strength to approach Carsen’s range or stamina there, and Carsen’s a better movement shooter, with the strength to set screens. The size, speed and skill level of the NBA is a crazy adjustment, even for guys who dominated high level NCAA ball like Carsen, Grant and Tre did. The G league can’t replicate that.
That said, with Kemba out, I’d love to see Waters get some minutes running point. His size is a liability, but the guy was SEC DPOY for a reason- he has some killer instincts.
Define competitive? As of 2018, 20% of G League players make it to the NBA.You'd think the G-league could be more competitive than NCAA, right? Unless you are Duke, the vast majority of teams in the NCAA have at most one player that has a chance at an NBA career. The G-league, I assume, is only players that have some chance at an NBA career. Now, the G-league doesn't have any of those first round talents - but you'd think the average player in the G-league would be better than in the NCAA. But, maybe it's the lack of those elite talents which makes all the difference.
The VanVleet comp is def a better one for Waters than Edwards, agree.Judging mainly from what I saw of him at LSU, I don’t think so, really. First, to your caveat, I think there’s a good chance Carden would’ve lighting the G league up. But I think Tre has more in common with a guy some people mistakenly give as a Edwards comp - Fred VanVleet. Tre has a great feel for running an offense, Carsen’s a pure 2 in FVV’s body. Tre’s a point guard. He can shoot off the bounce, but he doesn’t have the leg strength to approach Carsen’s range or stamina there, and Carsen’s a better movement shooter, with the strength to set screens. The size, speed and skill level of the NBA is a crazy adjustment, even for guys who dominated high level NCAA ball like Carsen, Grant and Tre did. The G league can’t replicate that.
That said, with Kemba out, I’d love to see Waters get some minutes running point. His size is a liability, but the guy was SEC DPOY for a reason- he has some killer instincts.
The VanVleet comp is aligned with Carsen's size, age, 3pt%, college success, low/no draft status, and development in the modern NBA. Is he a perfect comp, absolutely not.Judging mainly from what I saw of him at LSU, I don’t think so, really. First, to your caveat, I think there’s a good chance Carden would’ve lighting the G league up. But I think Tre has more in common with a guy some people mistakenly give as a Edwards comp - Fred VanVleet. Tre has a great feel for running an offense, Carsen’s a pure 2 in FVV’s body. Tre’s a point guard. He can shoot off the bounce, but he doesn’t have the leg strength to approach Carsen’s range or stamina there, and Carsen’s a better movement shooter, with the strength to set screens. The size, speed and skill level of the NBA is a crazy adjustment, even for guys who dominated high level NCAA ball like Carsen, Grant and Tre did. The G league can’t replicate that.
That said, with Kemba out, I’d love to see Waters get some minutes running point. His size is a liability, but the guy was SEC DPOY for a reason- he has some killer instincts.
I guess if you want to go back 40years to find a comp. Vinnie did shoot 25% from 3 for his career. The good news is Vinnie only attempted .3 3PA/game.Shane Larkin is my comp for Waters, although Waters is a better distributor. Vinnie Johnson is my comp for Carsten Edwards. The Microwave didn't come into his own until his 6th year in the league, so hopefully it won't take Edwards that long to become an impact scorer off the bench.
No Waters seemed to make a difference.Somehow Tacko had 16 and 18 including 14 OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS and they lost by 23 tonight. Seems like that should be impossible.
yes.Stats question, when someone taps at a ball on the offensive glass and it doesn't go in, does that count as an offensive rebound and a shot attempt?
Tacko went 8/13 so that doesn't explain it.Okay, that's how I could see Tacko getting 14 offensive rebounds in a losing effort. Multiple taps at the ball off the glass, leading to only 2 points.
Fall was 8-13 from the field. The plays following his 14 offensive rebounds break down as follows:Okay, that's how I could see Tacko getting 14 offensive rebounds in a losing effort. Multiple taps at the ball off the glass, leading to only 2 points.
Seeing Phoenix #4 overall picks from 2016 and 2017 both playing in the G league makes me feel pretty good about Danny's high picks of Smart, Brown, and Tatum.Tacko went 8/13 so that doesn't explain it.
Maine: 25 Turnovers, 6 steals.
Memphis: 7 Turnovers, 18 steals.
Memphis also has Josh Jackson. Yes, that Josh Jackson. He went 11/19 for 23 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assists, 5 steals, 1 block.
Wow. I had been wondering what happened to him. He's rehabbing or is he that bad now? Man, we're lucky he blew off Danny for that workout out in California, pre-draft.Memphis also has Josh Jackson. Yes, that Josh Jackson.
Phoenix dumped him in a cutting salary type of transaction and he could not make the 5-11 Memphis Grizzlies rotation.Wow. I had been wondering what happened to him. He's rehabbing or is he that bad now? Man, we're lucky he blew off Danny for that workout out in California, pre-draft.
Need to see more of Edwards playing off ball when Hayward is back, I think. So far he seems horribly miscast playing as a lead guard rather than running off screens and capitalizing on catch and shoot situations. He isn’t finding the space he needs as the ballhandler.And Waters 6-11 on 3 pointers. Could he supplant Edwards in Boston as a not-as-good but good enough 3 point shooter, plus defense and playmaking which Edwards doesn't bring?
Yeah. I mean, PJ Dozier averaged 20 points, 6 boards and 6 assists last year.Do we need to adjust Waters numbers down a bit because there's apparently zero defense being played in the G League?
yea, shooting 3s in-game is good for Tre. Keep his confidence high, putting up 30pts will do that.I understand the motivation for keeping Waters clock running another year when you already have Kemba, Smart, and Wannamaker, but I don't know what Waters really has left to learn in the G-League.
I guess they could tell him to jack tons of 3s and only guard 6-5+ guys?
Not sure what you mean by "clock running" but no matter which contract Waters had, he would be playing in G-L as he's better off playing than soaking up DNPs.I understand the motivation for keeping Waters clock running another year when you already have Kemba, Smart, and Wannamaker, but I don't know what Waters really has left to learn in the G-League.
I guess they could tell him to jack tons of 3s and only guard 6-5+ guys?
Yeah, but with the pace that game was running at, it's more like just 4 at a normal pace.He had 7 turnovers last night, maybe he could work on that.
Maine was playing at a slower pace than they normally play at. It was the shooting. Maine shot 57.5% from the field, 50/87. From 3, 22/49, 44.9%. 18/23 from the line.Yeah, but with the pace that game was running at, it's more like just 4 at a normal pace.
I just mean that this year essentially doesn’t count for NBA service time, and they can give him a cheap 4-year after, which is a move at the margins that definitely helps this team.Not sure what you mean by "clock running" but no matter which contract Waters had, he would be playing in G-L as he's better off playing than soaking up DNPs.
It's interesting but the 2-way contract probably hurts Waters; I assume that if this were three years ago, he'd probably get a 10-day tryout with one or more teams and might actually make someone's roster but I'm glad the Cs have him at least for now.
I'm fine with him in Maine for the moment, but most PGs end up learning by getting NBA minutes. He can dominate so easily in Maine that it's probably hard to get him to be a perfectionist about turnovers there.I've seen him play a good amount and am very impressed with his game. That said, his turnovers and sloppy ballhandling has been an issue since day one. This alone is reason to keep him in Maine
2nd team point guard on a contending team doesn't seem a stretch if these skills are real. He already seems more in-game confident around his shooting than Edward's. And to me that is a big deal.The Celtics should be looking at Waters as a future long term PG in the JJ Barea mold, although Waters is way better at running an offense, and is a better defender. I think he can be better than Larkin because of the team running and defensive chops.
I have watched him three times live, two pre-season games, and against the Kings. I spent some time watching him closely during these games. The guy really knows how to play basketball, something I cant say about many of the young players I watch. Besides having good command on how to run an offense, Waters has a great feel for positioning on defense. The big question I have is if he's just too tiny to be a rotation player on a championship team.
It’s fun having a team promising enough that these little things at the margins matter. Bulls fans don’t have the luxury of getting excited about the 51st pick turning into a rotation guard quickly, but it’s legitimately important for the Celtics.2nd team point guard on a contending team doesn't seem a stretch if these skills are real. He already seems more in-game confident around his shooting than Edward's. And to me that is a big deal.
OK, thanks for explaining.I just mean that this year essentially doesn’t count for NBA service time, and they can give him a cheap 4-year after, which is a move at the margins that definitely helps this team.
I think he showed enough preseason that the Celtics would have done what it took to keep him in terms of roster spots.