Kraft One-Ups Brady’s Departure

Salem's Lot · Feb 23, 2019

Papelbon's Poutine said:
Uh, I don’t think it’s over his head, I think you’re oversimplifying it. It’s a serious problem. Yes. It’s been attempted to be cracked down (and has some in certain areas or situations), but this isn’t the first time the public has cared and I’d argue that that’s not even the ‘story’ here. It’s a high profile story because* of Kraft, but these stings happen. And it’s not in the news in this occasion because of the trafficking. I’d also ask which tv or movie shows ‘joke’ about it?

You are correct that the LEOs involved did their job. But I think you’re missing Montana’s point.

Maybe I am missing his point. He seemed to be saying that my criticism of the way the media covers certain stories and not others in this country somehow implies that I personally don’t care about the opinions of Black and Hispanic people, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Instead of citing instances to the contrary he instead went with an ad hominem attack. After typing out a post I decided to delete it to not derail the thread.

And Van Wilder. Happened to watch it the other night. Tim Matheson’s character (Van’s Dad) happens to tell his (female) assistant to book a massage with a “happy ending”. I’m sure that’s not the only time it’s ever been joked about in a movie.

luckiestman · Feb 23, 2019

Ralphwiggum said:
Yeesh. I mean, I’m not as anxious as others to burn the guy to the ground over this but maybe lay low for a bit.

Dude is old, he can’t skip an Oscars. Could be last one he can get up for.

Papelbon's Poutine · Feb 23, 2019

Salem's Lot said:
Maybe I am missing his point. He seemed to be saying that my criticism of the way the media covers certain stories and not others in this country somehow implies that I personally don’t care about the opinions of Black and Hispanic people, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Instead of citing instances to the contrary he instead went with an ad hominem attack. After typing out a post I decided to delete it to not derail the thread.

And Van Wilder. Happened to watch it the other night. Tim Matheson’s character (Van’s Dad) happens to tell his (female) assistant to book a massage with a “happy ending”. I’m sure that’s not the only time it’s ever been joked about in a movie.

You realize not all prostitutes are trafficked, right? Which are you getting upset about?

Salem's Lot · Feb 23, 2019

Papelbon's Poutine said:
You realize not all prostitutes are trafficked, right? Which are you getting upset about?

My issue is what it always is with anything that has to do with this team, the media coverage. The faux outrage is nauseating. That’s all I was commenting about. I took exception to the response. That’s all.

Marciano490 · Feb 23, 2019

BornToRun said:
You know, I was looking forward to an offseason of thinking about roster additions/subtractions and enjoying another championship.

Instead, we have a 12 page and counting thread on what our team’s owner does with his dick.

Do you have a gofundme or something set up? I’d like to make a small contribution in your time of distress.

Papelbon's Poutine · Feb 23, 2019

Salem's Lot said:
My issue is what it always is with anything that has to do with this team, the media coverage. The faux outrage is nauseating. That’s all I was commenting about. I took exception to the response. That’s all.

Dude, I agree with you in a lot of that; but he deserves the scrutiny. Trafficking aside, one of the most powerful owners in sports got busted going to a rub and tug. On camera. Twice. This isn’t exactly making shit out of nothing or CNN headlining with slightly deflated balls. (Heh). One can have whatever opinion of using a prostitute they want, but bottom line it’s illegal (another debate but not one applicable here) and it’s pretty bad form, especially in this manner. It’s seedy, it’s scummy and Jesus Christ it was dumb. Don’t blame the media on this one.

Edit: i guess I’d ask if you think anyone as powerful and famous as him would draw less scrutiny? Like if Goodell himself, Jones, Balmer, etc you don’t think it would be headline news?

Mystic Merlin · Feb 23, 2019

What the fuck is he doing at an Oscars party?

A different breed, indeed. I’d be secluding myself for the foreseeable future, and certainly from one of the biggest media events of the year.

GoDa · Feb 23, 2019

What if his opinion is something like: "So what? I like getting hand jobs. I don't mind paying. If you haven't already figured out, I'm a little freaky when it comes to sex. Don't think there is anything wrong with it. Figured I was pretty anonymous as another retiree in Florida and obviously didn't expect it to make the news."

Papelbon's Poutine · Feb 23, 2019

GoDa said:
What if his opinion is something like: "So what? I like getting hand jobs. I don't mind paying. If you haven't already figured out, I'm a little freaky when it comes to sex. Don't think there is anything wrong with it. Figured I was pretty anonymous as another retiree in Florida and obviously didn't expect it to make the news."

That most likely IS his opinion, but I don’t think he can voice that without hurting his brand.

Marciano490 · Feb 23, 2019

Mystic Merlin said:
What the fuck is he doing at an Oscars party?

A different breed, indeed. I’d be secluding myself for the foreseeable future, and certainly from one of the biggest media events of the year.

It’s called fuck you money for a reason.

soxhop411 · Feb 23, 2019

It’s going to be a challenge for Kraft to avoid a reporter at the Oscar parties.

Papelbon's Poutine · Feb 23, 2019

‘No comment’. Not that challenging.

luckiestman · Feb 23, 2019

soxhop411 said:
It’s going to be a challenge for Kraft to avoid a reporter at the Oscar parties.

Kraft should ask them how much they charge for hand jobs

Marciano490 · Feb 23, 2019

Papelbon's Poutine said:
‘No comment’. Not that challenging.

I’m sure he’ll up the level of difficulty though by having a bunch of drinks first.

simplyeric · Feb 23, 2019

soxhop411 said:
It’s going to be a challenge for Kraft to avoid a reporter at the Oscar parties.

Do reporters ask that kind of thing at the oscars? Seems like it would be frowned upon...SO many of the men there have that or worse in their past.

phrenile · Feb 23, 2019

Bob, who are you wearing?

Napkins.

Papelbon's Poutine · Feb 23, 2019

Marciano490 said:
I’m sure he’ll up the level of difficulty though by having a bunch of drinks first.

A consideration but he seems to be able to handle it, at least judged by how blitzed he seems after games. He slurs but doesn’t say anything stupid. I’d imagine (unless he going senile) he can handle it even when soused. I don’t think the Oscar reporter set is really going to grill him, but it’ll be entertaining if they do. As you said ‘fuck you’ money. Well, I’m a ‘fuck you’ fan, I could give a shit but I can just not go to espn or WEEI. I don’t think he dumb or drunk enough to talk about it but ymmv.

dcmissle · Feb 23, 2019

I

Papelbon's Poutine said:
A consideration but he seems to be able to handle it, at least judged by how blitzed he seems after games. He slurs but doesn’t say anything stupid. I’d imagine (unless he going senile) he can handle it even when soused. I don’t think the Oscar reporter set is really going to grill him, but it’ll be entertaining if they do. As you said ‘fuck you’ money. Well, I’m a ‘fuck you’ fan, I could give a shit but I can just not go to espn or WEEI. I don’t think he dumb or drunk enough to talk about it but ymmv.

γαμήσου money

In the old days, the Big Show on “EEI had the Bob Kraft guy. He did a spectacular inebriated Kraft, which often ended with —

“Jonathan ... JON-A-THAN !!!”

We need the Bob Kraft guy now.

The days of riding shotgun to Roger and chairing all those super-important NFL Commitees ... buh-bye

He’s now a wild card, the owners know it and will act accordingly

Marciano490 · Feb 23, 2019

dcmissle said:
I

γαμήσου money

In the old days, the Big Show on “EEI had the Bob Kraft guy. He did a spectacular inebriated Kraft, which often ended with —

“Jonathan ... JON-A-THAN !!!”

We need the Bob Kraft guy now.

The days of riding shotgun to Roger and chairing all those super-important NFL Commitees ... buh-bye

He’s now a wild card, the owners know it and will act accordingly

djbayko · Feb 23, 2019

GoDa said:
What if his opinion is something like: "So what? I like getting hand jobs. I don't mind paying. If you haven't already figured out, I'm a little freaky when it comes to sex. Don't think there is anything wrong with it. Figured I was pretty anonymous as another retiree in Florida and obviously didn't expect it to make the news."

Either that or, if you're claiming you did nothing illegal, being out in public lends credence to that story.

And no matter what, there's going to come a time when you have to face people. Rip off that band aid. Make things normal again.

nighthob · Feb 23, 2019

simplyeric said:
Do reporters ask that kind of thing at the oscars? Seems like it would be frowned upon...SO many of the men there have that or worse in their past.

Yeah, but how many of them do you think are going to say to the crowd, “Let’s have a big hand for Robert Kraft!”?

j-man · Feb 23, 2019

jercra said:
If anyone is interested, the drive time Denver sports talk radio hosts think a $2M fine, forced to relinquish the team to Jonathan and banned from all football activities for a year is what's likely coming. They mentioned that the NFL just had a human trafficking incident right before the Superbowl so the optics are bad. Also that with the Pats history of cheating with recording the coaches on the sidelines, Spygate, taping the Rams walk-through (which they didn't even get punished for!!) and Deflategate, the league will come down much harder on them than if it was anyone else. Then there was mention of the precedent of Donald Sterling in the NBA and Richardson in the NFL. There's a lot of stupid out there.

anyone in denver needs to be careful in what they say denver right now is going through a bad ownship transion

lets let all of the facts come out first

Gambler7 · Feb 24, 2019

Regarding the video...is it clear what video they have? Is it just him walking in the place or video from inside? Sorry if I missed it.

YTF · Feb 24, 2019

axx said:
Can't see the police dropping the charges if only because they literally have him on tape. But yes no jail time.

I wonder if the video will leak?

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to this. You may be entirely right about this, but there were two reasons that I mentioned the possibility of the charges being dropped and would like to hear from the legal experts here. We don't know yet what is on video concerning Kraft. Was it the act of requesting services, receiving services and paying for services? If not all three does this make it more difficult for charges to stick? Also I'm assuming that Kraft's lawyers will question the handling of any evidence (pun not intended, but pretty much unavoidable), the chain of custody is what I think they refer to it as. This is the sort of thing that sometimes leads to charges being dismissed, yes? Improper procedure in either procuring or collecting evidence.

YTF · Feb 24, 2019

Gambler7 said:
Regarding the video...is it clear what video they have? Is it just him walking in the place or video from inside? Sorry if I missed it.

Funny after a couple of days, we may be the first to question this and just a few minutes apart.

Lose Remerswaal · Feb 24, 2019

To those who were suggesting this might be a payback setup by Belichick, turns out he has a condo in the same neighborhood the strip mall in question is in.

Hmmm.

OnWisc · Feb 24, 2019

BornToRun said:
You know, I was looking forward to an offseason of thinking about roster additions/subtractions and enjoying another championship.

Instead, we have a 12 page and counting thread on what our team’s owner does with his dick.

It’s not unprecedented. I mean, How long was the thread when we traded Seymour?

Dick Drago · Feb 24, 2019

Something I saw on Law and Order or one of those shows—the John was acquitted because he paid the front desk for -ostensibly-a legit massage. In the massage room he left the $$ for the “extra” on a table rather than handing to the masseuse directly. Thus in court he argued it was not a “payment” for sex-and anything beyond legit massage was consensual sex, not a commercial transaction.

Seems ridiculous—to the attorneys: Hollywood myth or rooted in actual law?

Average Reds · Feb 24, 2019

Dick Drago said:
Something I saw on Law and Order or one of those shows—the John was acquitted because he paid the front desk for -ostensibly-a legit massage. In the massage room he left the $$ for the “extra” on a table rather than handing to the masseuse directly. Thus in court he argued it was not a “payment” for sex-and anything beyond legit massage was consensual sex, not a commercial transaction.

Seems ridiculous—to the attorneys: Hollywood myth or rooted in actual law?

I'm not a lawyer, but Law and Order bears only a passing resemblance to the truth.

First, it is borderline absurd to believe that a real-world case involving the facts you describe would ever wind up in court. If it did, "The sex was her idea and the tip I left had nothing to do with it" is a laughable argument.

Dick Drago · Feb 24, 2019

Obviously. That’s why I said it seemed ridiculous.

axx · Feb 24, 2019

YTF said:
We don't know yet what is on video concerning Kraft.

The police report posted made it sound like they planted video cameras inside various rooms of the spa. They got a warrant to do this. If that's accurate, then they have the whole thing on tape.

MuppetAsteriskTalk · Feb 24, 2019

Gambler7 said:
Regarding the video...is it clear what video they have? Is it just him walking in the place or video from inside? Sorry if I missed it.

The reports are, "video of Kraft receiving acts from a prostitute," if the multiple tweets posted on the first few pages of this thread are accurate.

bosockboy · Feb 24, 2019

axx said:
The police report posted made it sound like they planted video cameras inside various rooms of the spa. They got a warrant to do this. If that's accurate, then they have the whole thing on tape.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s full on intercourse. If he takes a risk like that he probably goes for the whole enchilada.

Rovin Romine · Feb 24, 2019

Dick Drago said:
Something I saw on Law and Order or one of those shows—the John was acquitted because he paid the front desk for -ostensibly-a legit massage. In the massage room he left the $$ for the “extra” on a table rather than handing to the masseuse directly. Thus in court he argued it was not a “payment” for sex-and anything beyond legit massage was consensual sex, not a commercial transaction.

Seems ridiculous—to the attorneys: Hollywood myth or rooted in actual law?

It's a tossup between whether Law and Order or CSI is the more truly execrable show, but they are both teeth gnashingly, eye-rollingly bad from a "this is what happens in the real world" POV.

That said, a jury could acquit or convict on the fact pattern you're suggesting - it would be entirely up to them.

That said, I did get a dismissal for a client who was charged with soliciting prostitution because she had craig's listed an add for a massage with a happy ending and was arrested when the officer arrived at her door. There were no pictures, no followup, no cash transaction (IIRC). So, I told the judge that all things came to an end, so without anything more concrete, this was mere puffery in advertising on the client's part. I didn't expect it to work, but it did. The judge noted that at the end of massages, he'd been happy, and he'd been sad, then granted the MTD. So you never know.

Jimbodandy · Feb 24, 2019

Not to derail this thread, but I want RR in my foxhole.

Yes, phrasing, I know. Point stands.

axx · Feb 24, 2019

You know, I have a feeling that the NFL found out about it pretty quickly after the surveillance was done, and that was why they floated out the idea of having the first game of next season not be the SB champ. At first I thought it was because the NFL was afraid of how large the home crowd would have been had the Rams won; but this makes more sense.

jercra · Feb 24, 2019

Papelbon's Poutine said:
‘No comment’. Not that challenging.

"We're on to Pasadena"

djbayko · Feb 24, 2019

bosockboy said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s full on intercourse. If he takes a risk like that he probably goes for the whole enchilada.

As noted earlier in the thread, per online reviews of this joint, it’s not that kind of place. If they have video in the room, you’re most likely seeing a (pixelated?) hand job from a 40 year old Chinese lady.

Byrdbrain · Feb 24, 2019

Dick Drago said:
Something I saw on Law and Order or one of those shows—the John was acquitted because he paid the front desk for -ostensibly-a legit massage. In the massage room he left the $$ for the “extra” on a table rather than handing to the masseuse directly. Thus in court he argued it was not a “payment” for sex-and anything beyond legit massage was consensual sex, not a commercial transaction.

Seems ridiculous—to the attorneys: Hollywood myth or rooted in actual law?

Wasn't there something about catching them doing it twice so they couldn't use the "I thought I was just paying for a massage" defense?

bosockboy · Feb 24, 2019

djbayko said:
As noted earlier in the thread, per online reviews of this joint, it’s not that kind of place. If they have video in the room, you’re most likely seeing a (pixelated?) hand job from a 40 year old Chinese lady.

Sure, possible. But the typical visitor there and someone who posted an online review isn’t worth 6 billion. If he throws a grand in their face, they are going to bang him.

djbayko · Feb 24, 2019

bosockboy said:
Sure, possible. But the typical visitor there and someone who posted an online review isn’t worth 6 billion. If he throws a grand in their face, they are going to bang him.

I guess. But if he wanted that, wouldn’t he just go to one of many places where he can get that without hassle? Do sex workers not have boundaries? Can they be raped? (Rhetorical)

bankshot1 · Feb 24, 2019

bosockboy said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s full on intercourse. If he takes a risk like that he probably goes for the whole enchilada.

So what you're saying is that Kraft went for the poo-poo platter?

YTF · Feb 24, 2019

axx said:
The police report posted made it sound like they planted video cameras inside various rooms of the spa. They got a warrant to do this. If that's accurate, then they have the whole thing on tape.

And the next question being, what is "the whole thing"? Followed by, what is the vantage point, how clear is the video, etc....? I'm not saying Kraft is an innocent party to any of this, but to this point we don't know what we don't know.

Couperin47 · Feb 24, 2019

Marciano490 said:
Seriously, I’m still mind blown

Kraft, like his pal Donald, prefers a 'more Southern" strategy....

Eddie Jurak · Feb 24, 2019

Rovin Romine said:
It's a tossup between whether Law and Order or CSI is the more truly execrable show, but they are both teeth gnashingly, eye-rollingly bad from a "this is what happens in the real world" POV.

If you want "teeth gnashingly, eye-rollingly bad from a 'this is what happens in the real world' POV", you need to watch HBO's "The Night of..." It makes CSI and Law and Order look like accurate documentaries by comparison.

axx · Feb 24, 2019

YTF said:
And the next question being, what is "the whole thing

I know what you mean but the police report makes it sound like the visit descriptions were directly from what they have on the surveillance video. Quality I think shouldn't be a problem.

YTF · Feb 24, 2019

Again and not to split hairs here, but was there any mention specifically about whatever video they may have on Kraft or was it in general terms? I'm guessing there is a lot of footage available to them, some it it better quality than others. Also by quality I don't only mean clarity or non grainy footage, but positioning of the device itself vs the positioning of any potential defendants during the time they were filmed.

snowmanny · Feb 24, 2019

YTF said:
Again and not to split hairs here, but was there any mention specifically about whatever video they may have on Kraft or was it in general terms? I'm guessing there is a lot of footage available to them, some it it better quality than others. Also by quality I don't only mean clarity or non grainy footage, but positioning of the device itself vs the positioning of any potential defendants during the time they were filmed.

You’ve spent a lot of time visualizing this

LoweTek · Feb 24, 2019

Rovin Romine said:
It's a tossup between whether Law and Order or CSI is the more truly execrable show, but they are both teeth gnashingly, eye-rollingly bad from a "this is what happens in the real world" POV.

That said, a jury could acquit or convict on the fact pattern you're suggesting - it would be entirely up to them.

That said, I did get a dismissal for a client who was charged with soliciting prostitution because she had craig's listed an add for a massage with a happy ending and was arrested when the officer arrived at her door. There were no pictures, no followup, no cash transaction (IIRC). So, I told the judge that all things came to an end, so without anything more concrete, this was mere puffery in advertising on the client's part. I didn't expect it to work, but it did. The judge noted that at the end of massages, he'd been happy, and he'd been sad, then granted the MTD. So you never know.

Doesn't there have to be a demonstrable bargain made? E.g. the guy says, "I will give you $100 if you [perform oral sex on] me." Alternatively, the woman says, "I will [perform oral sex on] you for $100." And then the other party, man or woman agrees and they get on with it?

So advancing the logic, if Kraft got his massage and the woman gave him his tug and he left a "tip" with no bargain spoken or implied, is he still guilty?

YTF · Feb 24, 2019

snowmanny said:
You’ve spent a lot of time visualizing this

Me and everyone else in this thread. :beatit:

Kraft One-Ups Brady’s Departure

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