Celebrating What Is: Ten Most Important Non-TB12 Players of the BB/TB Era

The most disappointing omission for me is Aaron Hernandez. In a better world, we're all listing both him and Gronk and how the offense that the Pats built around them was virtually unstoppable from 2011 on.

Super Nomario said:

Patriots leaders in AV, '01-'18:

Brady, obviously - 269
1. Mankins - 114
2. Light - 109
3. Wilfork - 102
4. Welker - 86
5. Big Sey - 85
6t. Gronk - 82
6t. Koppen - 82
8t. McCourty - 66
8t. Vrabel - 66
10. Bruschi - 65
Near-misses: Faulk, Ninkovich, Solder (60), Edelman, Mayo, Vollmer (59), Hightower (53), Warren, Neal (50)
Gost, Branch, Moss, Connolly, Troy Brown, Cannon, Kaczur, Law round out the top 25 (there's a four-way tie for 24)

Harrison 29th, McGinest tied for 32nd, Butler tied for 39th, White 42nd, Vinatieri tied for 69th

I don't love the way AV accounts for individual OL play or ST, so I would probably adjust based on that. This stat is also regular-season-only and obviously playoff performance matters. But an emphasis on playoff splash plays is necessarily going to depress OL, so I think people are selling guys like Mankins, Light, and Koppen way short. And I get that guys like Gronk and Sey maybe didn't have the standout performance in the playoffs, but they contributed a ton to being there in the first place. They can't just roll out anybody and win 12 games.

I'm also not as inclined to dismiss the contributions of guys like Mankins and Welker just because they weren't on championship teams. There have only been ~25 500+ teams in NFL history and the Pats have four of them ('07 and '10-'12) and those guys were on all four. It's fair to blame them for some unfortunate playoff moments, but it's not fair to blame them because they were on the best offenses of the B/B era but some of the worst defenses. I get that this list is "important," not "best," but I don't think the importance drops to zero in seasons where they didn't lift a Lombardi at the end.

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What’s interesting (to me, anyway) is that on the top ten of that list, only two players (Welker and Vrabel) were not drafted by the Pats. And of those draftees, only Brady and Koppen were not a first or second rounder.
Even looking at 11-20, only Nink was acquired by trade or FA. And Edelman and Bruschi and Neal are the only three who weren’t first or second rounders.

Saints Rest said:

What’s interesting (to me, anyway) is that on the top ten of that list, only two players (Welker and Vrabel) were not drafted by the Pats. And of those draftees, only Brady and Koppen were not a first or second rounder.
Even looking at 11-20, only Nink was acquired by trade or FA. And Edelman and Bruschi and Neal are the only three who weren’t first or second rounders.

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I think the issue is longevity; AV gets accumulated over a long period of time. Rodney Harrison, for instance, was already in his 30s when he signed with the Pats, so he only played 63 (regular-season) games in NE. Mankins played 130, more than twice as many. It's just hard for a guy who wasn't drafted by a team to rack up a lot of AV unless he joined right after his rookie contract like Vrabel, Welker, and Ninkovich did.

THE OP S

Ralphwiggum said:

Nit pick but Bruschi was a 3rd rounder I believe.

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Bruschi was #11 in the link's top 10 (as they had Brady #1).

Super Nomario said:

I think the issue is longevity; AV gets accumulated over a long period of time. Rodney Harrison, for instance, was already in his 30s when he signed with the Pats, so he only played 63 (regular-season) games in NE. Mankins played 130, more than twice as many. It's just hard for a guy who wasn't drafted by a team to rack up a lot of AV unless he joined right after his rookie contract like Vrabel, Welker, and Ninkovich did.

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My point was that for all the talk about BB's draft record, he has had a lot of significant hits when picking in the first two rounds. And conversely, with only a couple exceptions, despite all the talk about how BB can find diamonds in the rough of later rounds and UDFA's, there really haven't been many who consistently generated value over the long-term.

I wonder if it is partly due to contracts with high picks more likely to get extended into a second contract.

Was (Not Wasdin) said:

The most disappointing omission for me is Aaron Hernandez. In a better world, we're all listing both him and Gronk and how the offense that the Pats built around them was virtually unstoppable from 2011 on.

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Hernandez will always be a massive what if for me. That 2013 team looks completely different if he's around. It's also when Edelman started to get going so perhaps his development gets stunted a little bit with AH.

That 2011 offense was just insane. 169 / 2,237 / 24 from your TEs is just ridiculous.

I can't believe I'm scrolling through this topic and not seeing Welker on most lists.

I also can't believe that it's justified to not have him because there's been so many other important cogs.

Think of these units on a football team:

- Quarterbacks
- Running backs
- Wide receivers
- Tight ends
- Offensive line
- Defensive line
- Linebackers
- Cornerbacks
- Safeties
- Kickers/punters/special teams

Now obviously during the Brady era, QB has been by leaps and bounds the best unit in any given year (2008 excepted for obvious reasons) and over the course of this entire run. So let's just say that that position is in a class by itself.

Each year, from 2001-2018, what has been the strongest, most effective, unit on the team?

My initial run through the years...obviously there will be massive disagreements most likely!

2001 - Linebackers (Phifer, McGinest, Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Cox)
2002 - Cornerbacks (Law, Buckley, Smith)
2003 - Defensive line (Seymour, Washington, McGinest, Warren, Hamilton)
2004 - Running backs (Dillon, Faulk, Pass)
2005 - Safeties (Harrison, Wilson, Sanders)
2006 - Linebackers (Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau, Colvin, Banta-Cain)
2007 - Wide receiver (Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney)
2008 - Wide receiver (Moss, Welker, Gaffney)
2009 - Offensive line (mediocre RB corps ran well behind them, only gave up 16 sacks)
2010 - Running backs (BJGE, Woodhead were both great, Taylor still useful)
2011 - Tight end (Gronk + Hernandez = 169 rec, 2237 yds, 24 td)
2012 - Running backs (Ridley was really good, Woodhead was solid, Vereen up and comer, Bolden useful)
2013 - Running backs (Ridley/Blount/Bolden/Vereen = 2024 yds rushing, 18 td, 600+ rec yds)
2014 - Linebackers (Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Ayers)
2015 - Defensive line (Jones, Ninkovich, Siliga, Sheard, Hicks, Branch, Brown)
2016 - Running backs (Blount, Lewis, White)
2017 - Wide receiver (Cooks, Amendola, Hogan all solid)
2018 - Offensive line (corners are 2nd)

I just came across this article at BSJ. If the Pats win on Sunday, Gilmore will be just the 8th Pat in history to complete a triple-crown of sorts, securing a first-team All-Pro nod, a Pro Bowl nomination, and a Super Bowl ring, all in one year. The other 7 yield a couple surprises:

Bump. Hightower now has to be on the top 10 list based on XLIX, LI, and LIII (and his absence in LII, as well as 2015)