Celtics in 18-19
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Lets be honest, its been a weird NBA season overall. Despite the C's season being over according to this thread, the Raptors just got destroyed by Philly (who have lost to some bad teams) and the Bucks lost last night to the Heat. The C's have 2 more losses than the Warriors, but a better point differential (close to the Raptors) For all the early season talk of the Raptors and Bucks, they have not run away with anything thus far - the West is bunched up as well.
There is a ton of basketball to play in this season and nothing has been "decided" yet.
There is a ton of basketball to play in this season and nothing has been "decided" yet.
Maybe I’m in the minority I don’t know but this season doesn’t appear any weirder than others. Toronto was missing Kawhi, Ibaka, and Valenciunas on the road as Embiid was drooling about his matchup against Greg Monroe. Milwaukee lost a road B2B against a red hot Heat team......these are both normal occurrences. The Celtics are struggling with chemistry, the Rockets were complacent (adding Melo didn’t help), and the Warriors are coasting most games until the spring.
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And the Celtics were missing Baynes, Horford and Morris but it still induced a panic here - and the Cs lost a back to back game at Detriot to start the 3 game losing streak. Are these also normal occurrences?
Yeah but there have been issues since the start of the season when the team was at full strength.....this isn’t an overreaction from one game which isn’t uncommon here. I’ve been looking at our best played games being the ones where a couple guys were missing. I still believe that is when we are at our best but we really missed having one of Horford or Baynes on the floor.
Gash, you make some good points here BUT who on this thread implied/stated the season's over?
Dejesus, you keep implying that the board wants Brad Stevens replaced. BUT who has implied/stated that he should go or even be considered to be replaced? This team could be a .500/8th seed/knocked out in the first round and Brad is more than safe. It's almost laughable to even give an ounce of thought of Brad being fired.
Most posters around here are just frustrated, voicing opinions and were expecting a high 50s win team. It's not happening. Nothing too rash going on here other than BJ's Hayward rant.
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Yes, yes and yes. Whatever role Brad dreamt up for Horford, should be soaked up by Theis with Baynes/Horford out. Theis has good hands and is not a bad shooter. He can pick and roll or pop with KI or Tatum.
The starting lineup rolled out against the Bucks was more of Brad's fascination with playing small. Theis should have started at the 5 w/ Semi or Hayward at the 4.
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Might not be a ton of fits, but as an example I threw out Pat Beverley.
That could make sense.
Clippers probably aren't keeping Beverley long term, and Celtics unlikely to keep Rozier long term, but on the opposite teams I could see them staying on their teams for a couple years going forward.
Beverley is more of a role player, doesn't shoot as often, can defend, handle and move the ball, could play some minutes alongside Kyrie while I don't think Rozier can or should, and would be cheaper than Rozier going forward if he's amenable to staying for a contract above the taxpayer MLE but not a bank breaker.
Rozier could make sense for LA since he's younger, they'll have to replace Beverley and Bradley, should be a good fit with a bigger guard in SGA who could take the tougher defensive assignments, has a small cap hold this summer so they could hold his rights while shooting for a big game Kawhi type signing, and have matching rights on any deal he could sign elsewhere.
Might need LA to fall off a bit if they're still dreaming they can be a playoff threat this year but I don't think it's just a pipe dream offer.
I'd try to kick the tires on Tomas Satoransky as well if Washington wanted to clean a little more house there, but don't see Tomas as an issue there and Rozier not a great fit.
I'm not sure who those "people" are, but my guess is that they are simply not very knowledgeable about basketball.
I believe the point that @HomeRunBaker is making is that a coach can only do so much, as basketball is still a game that comes down mostly due to the players on the floor. In any event, Stevens is going nowhere, as Ainge is fortunately smart enough to ignore the so-called "drumbeat" (whose existence is questionable anyway).
The point that you are missing is that the timeline for Hayward's recovery always had very large error bars; most pundits were predicting that Hayward may not be 100% back until February at the earliest, or possibly not until the start of next season. His play at this point in the season is hardly predictive of the Hayward we will see next September.
Either way, Hayward is untradeable, and Ainge is not going to trade him now for peanuts and then look foolish if and when the All Star version of Hayward returns next season.
I think the Celtics are a really good team among a lot of other really good teams. Some teams won't get credit until they do it for a full year and win a series in the playoffs like the Pacers and the Nuggets. The 3 point shot is the great equalizer and there is so much young talent around the league.
The bottom half of the east is a dumpster fire though.
The bottom half of the east is a dumpster fire though.
Yeah literally nobody is using sportswriters COY voting to prove their point and literally nobody is questioning Brad’s job stability here. He’s a perfect fit with Ainge at this point.
Yes but with one caveat. An NBA coach can get the most out of a lottery with limited talent and effect wins and losses. We’ve seen this with Brad, with Doc in Orlando, with Atkinson in Brooklyn, etc etc. This actually isn’t uncommon for a new coach to motivate a team that catches others off guard during the regular season. What you aren’t going to find is a coach of a 40-45 win team turn them into a 55-60 win team due to his “coaching” as once you get to that level the talent wins out.
Not calling posters out here because it was in the most recent gamethread where people typically emote in real time. But Stevens has been called out there as well as in posts in this thread.
If I can summarize the criticisms of him here its that he doesn't manage timeouts well, doesn't work the refs, stays with small line-ups too long, doesn't encourage ball-movement and cannot manage this roster properly. I want to be clear that some of these criticisms are valid and given the team's performance relative to expectations, its understandable that he gets some heat. And I expect it to increase if they continue to struggle.
Great to see them make the extra pass and make a concerted effort to drive into the lane to get a higher percentage shot or free throws. That plus their intensity really showed in the first half. We need to see them do it consoatently and against teams with more length, but still great to see them attack their weaknesses successfully.
Everything for this team starts with offensive intensity and purpose. They over-passed a lot in this game, but it's way better than stagnation, and it led directly to a more connected defensive performance.
Jaylen had 4 fouls, 1-6 from the field (0-3 from three) in the 1st Half.
He scored 6pts after they got it up to a 29pt lead late in the 3rd Quarter.
He did have some nice steals but sulked/jogged back on D after missing shots.
I think his defense has been much better these past two games. I didn't see the sulking though I may have missed it as I was going back and forth between this game and football.
Sulking might be too strong...
Jaylen hesitates (he's clearly frustrated) getting back on D, when he misses a shot. Getting back late led to some of those fouls.
What a difference it makes to have Horford manning the middle rather than Daniel "Fouling Machine" Theis. He continues to be one of the teams most underappreciated players on both ends of the floor.
One thing I'd like to note about Gordon is that like Morris & Smart, he always seems to be well positioned on defense. I'd be interested in whether the advanced stats show the Celts to be better defensively with him on the floor.
Also there was a second meeting per BSJ which has a $10 off deal for the holidays. Robb & McAdam are worth the annual sub for me.
Also there was a second meeting per BSJ which has a $10 off deal for the holidays. Robb & McAdam are worth the annual sub for me.
Who doesn't love Al Horford? He's got a MAX contract, played on the 2018 All-Star team, and led the Celtics to the EC Finals. Heck, he married Ms. Universe. Al is appreciated by owners, coaches, teammates, fans and the most beautiful women in the world.
I'll use Horford's swatting Kemba's drive into the first row last night as Exhibit A. He's damn good at blocking the shots of players that try to drive to the hoop. I still stand by that Al has the defensive chops to guard the vast majority of 4's in today's pace-n-space NBA.
FREE Horford from just the 5!
Daniel "The IS" Theis and his phantom fouls aren't really too big a problem, considering he's the team leader, by a large margin, in def/off net rating.
https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1
Happy Holidays HRB and the rest of you hoop junkies...
Theis leads the league in PF/min this year. The impact of putting your opponent in the bonus doesn't necessarily show up in his on/off net rating as the effect of a team in the bonus early impacts the final 6 minutes of the half and the game when that player is on the bench.
Happy Holidays to you as well and to everyone here!!
Happy Holidays to you as well and to everyone here!!
Shot chart from last night: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/shot-chart/201812230BOS.html
Lots of threes and around the hoop, and some foul line jumpers. Tatum had 1 jumper from just inside foul line, everything else was at the rim or a three.
That's a fair and pertinent point since we are getting killed in FT contests. I do think a lot of the fouls Theis, Horford and Baynes pick up are them helping at the rim and not on the guys they are guarding.
I went and checked the highest PF/game list. It seems like a lot of highly regarded defensive players dominate that group (mostly Centers, which makes sense). Funny enough your all-time favorite, Kris Dunn, leads the league in PF/game this season. Dunn was also #1 for guards/wings with PF/game last season (should we ding his -8.0 on/off rating from last season?).
https://stats.nba.com/players/misc/?sort=PF&dir=1
There are so many things that happen on the court that impact winning/losing but don't show up on the stat sheet. On/off net is my favorite stat, kind of a catch-all, but has its flaws.
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Theis is particularly bad at hand discipline (insert joke here). It's not hard to see why he picks up a lot of fouls: he'll very often move his hands in swiping motions, or have them down low near the offensive player. Not sure whether that's just him, or a difference in how the game is called in the Bundesliga.
Agreed, Daniel does have a tendency to swipe. On the other hand, Semi does a great job of keeping his arms high and using his body to move the offensive player into tough spots. Looking forward to the day for Semi to start hitting his threes', he'll be Jae Crowder all over again.
Happy Holidays lovegtm.
Happy holidays everyone.
Really interesting quote from Kyrie here: https://nesn.com/2018/12/what-kyrie-irving-believes-celtics-must-do-for-chance-of-a-lifetime/
Same thing when Kerr took over GSW. They knew how they wanted to play and how they wanted to generate shots and everyone bought in.
This team is still trying to figure all of this stuff out. But I'm sure they will figure it out before the playoffs and I'm looking forward to a deep run after they do. It's actually a great thing to watch as it's happening if you are into this stuff.
Really interesting quote from Kyrie here: https://nesn.com/2018/12/what-kyrie-irving-believes-celtics-must-do-for-chance-of-a-lifetime/
Getting past those things, the ego-centric things, this is a chance of a lifetime for us. And I think that, in order to achieve what we want to, we have to be closer as a team and really understand that when someone takes a shot, it’s our shot, we feel good about it, now we get back on defense and we prepare the right way and we do the right things for one another and not just for ourselves.
So, I’m enjoying this. Every day is a new challenge. I’m just so open to what these guys have to offer and what we can accomplish by the end of the year, because talking to you guys is boring. It’s really boring, honestly, talking about game-to-game, what we can change, what we look like and stuff like that. But the in-game for us is the big picture, understanding what the goal is and how we accomplish it. It’s an everyday thing.
Most of us, I would presume, have played competitive basketball with and without coaches and we know the hardest part about gelling as a team is to have an approach - an identity, if you will - and getting everyone to buy into it so that people are doing things that are making the team successful. That was the amazing part of 2007-08: that team seemed to instantly know what everyone should do, where everyone should be, and what shots everyone should be taking.So, I’m enjoying this. Every day is a new challenge. I’m just so open to what these guys have to offer and what we can accomplish by the end of the year, because talking to you guys is boring. It’s really boring, honestly, talking about game-to-game, what we can change, what we look like and stuff like that. But the in-game for us is the big picture, understanding what the goal is and how we accomplish it. It’s an everyday thing.
Same thing when Kerr took over GSW. They knew how they wanted to play and how they wanted to generate shots and everyone bought in.
This team is still trying to figure all of this stuff out. But I'm sure they will figure it out before the playoffs and I'm looking forward to a deep run after they do. It's actually a great thing to watch as it's happening if you are into this stuff.
What I love about Kyrie is that he actively focuses on getting the team to enjoy that process of identity discovery, rather than getting caught up in "omgggzzz we're not the Dubs RIGHT NOW!!!11!."
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas/Best NBA Day to all! Excited to spend it angrily refreshing the game thread!
I think it’s been hard for Rozier, Brown and Tatum to refigure out their roles with Kyrie and Heyward back. All three had become much more important at the end of the season last year. Right now I think we still have a bunch of guys that think they’re starters and haven’t quite figured out roles.
Also, I think we can see how important Horford and Morris are when they’re hurt. Horford especially needs to be ready for the playoffs and re-gelled into the team.
After that Brad just needs to figure out who does and doesn’t play well together.. and KI’s quote about how it shouldn’t be important who takes the shot..because it should be all about team (although I hope some of the higher percentage players take more).
Toilet! Can't lead a team! Barely a rotation player! Reality!
Merry christmas everybody. Even the grinch can't steal it.
Gordon was pretty blah again, honestly, but Kyrie can carry anyone on any given night, and he gets the least support from the refs I have ever seen a star get. If Brad won’t say anything, he should. Or Danny. Kyrie is an assassin.
The thing with Gordon is it’s tough to tell what’s mental, and what’s physical. He blew that layup/dunk in OT because he hesitated and didn’t jump high enough to dunk.
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Yeah, but the move to get to the rim was awesome. Then he didn't finish. He's gotta put it all together.
But we did just beat the Sixers, so, yeah, I'm okay.
In all seriousness, a really entertaining game to watch and you saw why the Celtics will be such a tough matchup for anyone in the East, let alone 5 months from now when they’ve had more time to gel and have Hayward recover.
Horford is the glue.
Horford is the glue.
So when do we start talking about resigning Morris? What started as just a hot start seems to have turned into a great fit for the starting 5
We were talking about this around the TV last night. This is going to be an interesting offseason. We have a million wings, but Morris is clearly a team leader and a legit go to guy. If some other guys get moved in deals, Moby Dick or otherwise Danny has to give consideration to trying to keep him.
He is having a career year particularly with respect to 3P%, eFG% and rebounding. Very good on the defensive side of the ball as well. Seemingly a great teammate and his energy on the court may be only exceeded by Smart in terms of players on the current Celtics team.
At age 29, the Celtics may be comfortable with just a 2-3 year contract but I'm not sure that will be enough to keep him if he gets to the open market. He is certainly due for sizable raise over his current $5.375M salary.
He is a key cog on the current team but I would not be surprised if the Celtics let him go in the off season if another team offers him a long term deal. Will be interesting to see how things unfold.
We don't. There are already others under contract to take his minutes/shots without having to shell out another $15-20m per year on a long-term deal for a guy turning 30 with knee problems. Morris was a starter for two years in Detroit, has always demanded he be starting here, and will certainly be signed to starting 4 money this summer.
Forget him taking a discount......he spoke last week about knowing that he'd dip back in FA at the end of this contract and getting what he deserves.
Far more likely that he gets signed & traded to the Thunder this offseason for future picks than re-signing here.
The knee problems for a big guy are what worry me the most. I'm starting to believe Horford's knee may be in worse shape than people think.
Edit to change to "knee" from "knees" on Horford.