Training Camp News and Notes

And here is the TC schedule:

July 26 | Practice Time - 9:15 AM
July 27 | Practice Time - 9:15 AM
July 28 | Practice Time - 9:15 AM
July 29 | Practice Time - 9:15 AM

Position battles:
https://www.patriots.com/news/5-top-position-battles-in-patriots-training-camp

Preview:
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/New-England-Patriots-Training-Camp-Preview-488915131.html

Key roster dates:
https://www.patriots.com/news/key-dates-on-the-2018-nfl-patriots-calendar-291441

That really sucks about Mitchell, both on and off the field. Great kid who had a great story, meshed quickly with TB and was a big part of the fifth ring. Hate to hear it.

Yeah this sucks on Mitchell.

That is a real bummer. I was so happy reading about the book club, seeing him make those great catches in the comeback from 28-3, and watching develop as a happy exception to the BB’s checkered history of drafting wideouts.

Right knee injuries in the fall of 2013 and the summer of 2014. Not good.

Pats had been shopping Mitchell. The surgery isn't helping and he may be done.
Tom Pelissero‏Verified account @TomPelissero 8h8 hours ago
The #Patriots have been seeking a potential trade partner for WR Malcolm Mitchell, per sources. Flashed talent with 32 catches in 2016 but injuries have been frustrating. May be odd man out in New England, even with Julian Edelman’s suspension.

Kevin Duffy‏Verified account @KevinRDuffy 5h5 hours ago
Some additional info on Malcolm Mitchell. Pats are expected to make determination on his future in next 24-48, per source

One of my "Favorites" (if a player with 14 games and 32 Catches can be a favorite.)

Seemed like a good mature kid who fit in quickly. Always seemed to play bigger then he wast.

I hope he invested the 2 million ish he made and can find a career that gives him peace and success.

I'm excited - NDSU has been a good FCS school and I hope he can provide insights on developments in the college game that are now taking place in the NFL and specifically perhaps he can help the D scheme.

Yep. Though I'd rather trade Thuney..

McCourty, Chung, and Thomas would make for a pretty incredible safety group. Harmon as the #4 guy.

I imagine they'd play a lot of big nickel with Chung playing a lot of run support.

It's kind of hard to believe that the Pats are going into camp with Hightower/Van Noy/Roberts as the likely 1st team linebackers, and with very little competition.

That felt like the #1 area of need after the Super Bowl, and they had plenty of draft ammo.

I revert to the fact that the number of players the Pats deem draftable is very low, and assume that they had someone circled who got away from them. One could argue they had to make it happen with the ammo, but that tackle void loomed very large.

There must be a plan. If it is sensible, it assumes Hightower will miss 5 regular season games — that’s his average through 5 seasons.

Captaincoop said:

It's kind of hard to believe that the Pats are going into camp with Hightower/Van Noy/Roberts as the likely 1st team linebackers, and with very little competition.

That felt like the #1 area of need after the Super Bowl, and they had plenty of draft ammo.

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You left our Marquis Flowers. He at times showed up in games last year and at times looked like just a guy. Which probably puts him on par with Roberts.

But they did draft a LB in the 5th and 6th rounds so it's not like they completely ignored the position. Christian Sam is a pretty interesting prospect. He missed his 2016 season due to injury but came back in 2017 and put up impressive numbers in a major conference - 127 tackles (lead team), 1 INT, 9.5 tackles for loss, 3 sacks, 1 pass deflection, 1 forced fumble. It's so hard to tell with these guys if Sam fell to the 6th round because teams were scared of the foot injury in 2016 or if it was other reasons (he ran a pedestrian 4.75 in the 40).

The other interesting prospect who is back this year is Harvey Langi. Productive in college, great measurable, was productive in the 2017 training camp/preseason and made the team as an undrafted free agent. You could probably flag him as a health risk as well after the car accident in 2017 but the reports are that he is a full go for training camp.

Dcmissle says it well regarding Hightower. Games played will be the key issue. But if we take the high risk view and assume a healthy Hightower and Van Noy for 16 games then what they need are guys for depth, sub-packages and special teams. I think it's reasonable to find that from this group:
Elandon Roberts
Marquis Flowers
Christian Sam
Ja'Whawn Bentley
Harvey Langi

So it comes down to your tolerance for injury risk. I've long felt that BB gambles more here then he should.

(Wild card of course is if someone currently on another team can be acquired like how they got Van Noy)

dcmissle said:

I revert to the fact that the number of players the Pats deem draftable is very low, and assume that they had someone circled who got away from them.

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I don't assume this. If they thought LB was a huge need, they would have addressed it in free agency. Most rookies are bad, and picking where they did they couldn't count on someone being available. They also did draft two LB on day three, FWIW.

dcmissle said:

There must be a plan. If it is sensible, it assumes Hightower will miss 5 regular season games — that’s his average through 5 seasons.

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My read of their thinking is that they thought DL was a bigger need than LB and that the LB will play better if the DL plays better. The biggest move they made on defense by far was picking up Shelton.[/QUOTE]

I think T&A emojis guy sums up pretty well that they have bodies at LB. Hightower is great when healthy, Van Noy is fine, they have a bunch of other options they can mix-and-match with. Things definitely look worse when Hightower misses time.

I was watching Zo and Bertrand on the TV simulcast about an hour or so ago and they had Bedard on -- he was pretty negative on all things Pats. I know that's maybe been his MO of late but in addition to defending his "friction among the Big 3" column last week, he was also saying Gronk may be about to grumble again, that Sony Michel may have some knee problems, and that the whole McDaniels coming back thing may have been another way for Brady to stick it up Belichick's ass.

My big takeaway? That the dramatic offseason isn't going away anytime soon.

Van Everyman said:

I was watching Zo and Bertrand on the TV simulcast about an hour or so ago and they had Bedard on -- he was pretty negative on all things Pats. I know that's maybe been his MO of late but in addition to defending his "friction among the Big 3" column last week, he was also saying Gronk may be about to grumble again, that Sony Michel may have some knee problems, and that the whole McDaniels coming back thing may have been another way for Brady to stick it up Belichick's ass.

My big takeaway? That the dramatic offseason isn't going away anytime soon.

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The bolded is so ludicrous it defies response.

Day 1 recap.

lexrageorge said:

The bolded is so ludicrous it defies response.

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The whole thing is ridiculous.

Interesting

Yep -- could mean they just want to showcase him for a trade. Or, maybe they want to test the knee one more time.

Follow up on Mitchell. He’s not practicing. Doing work with everyone on PUP.

Yep:

This tweet and picture are fantastic.

NortheasternPJ said:

This tweet and picture are fantastic.

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Yup. It's an annual "prank" for years to take those pics of Reiss and it never fails to deliver.

Can we move the volin, press conference stuff out to the media forum?
They are 5 Days into training camp. There are actual football things happening on a football field. Let’s talk about that instead.

Wynn given a second chance and makes the catch.

BigJimEd said:

Wynn given a second chance and makes the catch.

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From link:

For the record, Wynn muffed his first attempt. But Wynn, a couple of his fellow linemen, and even Rob Gronkowski signaled for one more chance for the rookie while coach Bill Belichick had a big smile on his face. And Wynn didn’t disappoint.

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Seems like an a-hole.

No fun at all being on that team.

They hate their coach.

On BSJ's Q&A with Bedard yesterday, there was a lot of talk about how good Trent Brown has looked so far at LT. So good that it's pushed Wynn to fighting to find a spot. But then Wynn has been so good, it's led to speculation that Mason could be on the trade block before he hits free agency. The idea being that Mason won't get the big $ he will see as a FA here in New England, so try to recoup some of that value now (a la Jamie Collins or Chandler Jones).

Saints Rest said:

On BSJ's Q&A with Bedard yesterday, there was a lot of talk about how good Trent Brown has looked so far at LT. So good that it's pushed Wynn to fighting to find a spot. But then Wynn has been so good, it's led to speculation that Mason could be on the trade block before he hits free agency. The idea being that Mason won't get the big $ he will see as a FA here in New England, so try to recoup some of that value now (a la Jamie Collins or Chandler Jones).

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National outlets seem to have a dimmer view of Mason than the local beat. I'm not sure a guy that undersized is going to get of these Kelechi Osemele deals.

Brown is also a free agent after the season, which adds another level of complexity to solving the OL puzzle. Wynn could play G this year and kick out to LT for 2019. Or they bring back Brown. Or even re-sign Brown and move him to RT, with Cannon the odd man out.

Would be nice if they could hold onto Mason for the year, even if he moves down the depth chart. Why sacrifice the depth? They have plenty of picks next year.

Jimbodandy said:

Would be nice if they could hold onto Mason for the year, even if he moves down the depth chart. Why sacrifice the depth? They have plenty of picks next year.

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Exactly - if the past decade has shown anything it's that OL play is absolutely critical to this team's success, and that OL depth is critical to the OL's play. Nice to be in a position of strength if they get blown away with an offer but otherwise I'd want to keep Mason as someone is inevitably going to get injured.

Jimbodandy said:

Would be nice if they could hold onto Mason for the year, even if he moves down the depth chart. Why sacrifice the depth? They have plenty of picks next year.

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Mason isn't moving down the depth chart; he's a very good guard. I think it makes a lot of sense to re-sign him (continuity is so important on the offensive line and as SN says because he's on the smaller size he might not be that expensive to re-sign), and I could certainly imagine them trading him for, say, a third round pick or better, but the one place he won't be is on NE's bench.

My guess is that right now, the OL roster looks like this:

Starters, from L to R: Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon
Game-day bench: Wynn, Waddle, Karras
53-man but inactive: Croston, Ferentz
Cut: Tobin, Bowanko, Ulrick
PS: King (although Croston or Ferencz could end up here as well)

Things that it is impossible to have too much of:

1.Starting pitching
2. O-Line depth
3. Strawberry Rhubarb Pie

I’m extremely uncomfortable with the idea of trading away o-line depth unless the return is astronomical.

Player for player swaps in the NFL are rare. If Mason is moved it’s likely for a draft pick. But theoretically speaking I’d be open to situation where Mason could be moved for a LBer or more realistically if Mason is moved for picks that allows them to deal other picks for a LBer.

It’s probably too many moving parts to have an actual conversation about.... what type of LBer? What picks would it cost? That LBers contract situation, are we talking about a 3 down player or situational player?... and like 15 other things.

But if we think that LB is a position group that is top heavy and lacks quality depth and that the guard group has excess quality (if that can even exist) then an argument could be made to deal from a strength to plug a weakness.

As I write this and think it through it really seems less and less attractive. Just keep the OL depth. It usually pays off.

If anything I think Wynn may start over Thuney.

Bedard thinks mason could be moved as well:

2. Brown’s presence — and that of Isaiah Wynn — could create an interesting situation for the Patriots’ offensive line.

This is a subject we’re going to be reading and talking about going forward. (Credit BSJ commenters for bringing this up in the chat on Monday.) Let’s say that Brown continues on his current ascent at left tackle, and Joe Thuney stays healthy enough to play at his consistent level at left guard going into the season. Would the presence of Wynn — who has played guard before — allow the Patriots to think about trading incumbent right guard Shaq Mason as the Georgia Tech product enters his contract year? Mason is one of the best in the game at his spot, but with salaries for good guards spiraling over the last year, it certainly gives the Patriots some food for thought. (This is the point where I remind you they dealt Logan Mankins in the late summer of 2014.)

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https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2018/07/31/what-weve-learned-about-the-patriots-this-summer/

NortheasternPJ said:

This tweet and picture are fantastic.

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I actually think this shows even more how huge Brown is: