Seattle Postpones Kaepernick Meeting Due to Protest

Ralphwiggum

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So . . . while everyone suspects that NFL teams don't want him because of the protests, the only team that has confirmed that explicitly is Seattle. If the protests were an issue for the team I don't understand why they would bother scheduling a meeting with him.
 

jose melendez

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I think Seattle's position is that if he was done protesting his talent warranted a tryout, but if he planned to continue, it did not. To my mind it pretty strongly reinforces the notion that he's been black listed, which given the things the NFL tolerates, is profoundly screwed up.

Of course, it's our fault as fans too for apparently being more angered by protests than other stuff.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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The whole thing is a little strange considering how blue Washington (and specifically Seattle) are.
 

TheoShmeo

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Putting Seattle aside, I think the conclusion that he's been blacklisted is not accurate. At least, it's not accurate as to most teams.

For a team like the Patriots, who already has a starting QB, Kaepernick as a back-up simply isn't worth the side show. Or at the least, I think that's a fair judgment to make. If Brady went down and the Pats were looking at Brian Hoyer as their starter, if Kaepernick was then available, I would hope they would consider him and give him a shot. But until that circumstance presents itself, all I can conclude is that Bill doesn't think Kaepernick is worth the brain damage in that role.

I'm focusing on the Pats but the same could be said of every team with a definite starter. Or two very good contenders for the role.

And yes, they talked reportedly talked to Manziel, who would also be somewhat of a circus, but I see Kaepernick as materially higher up the ladder media circus wise.

To me, the only teams we can confidently say have blacklisted Kaepernick are those with no established starter and who have chosen to let QBs of lesser talent than him compete for the job.
 

Super Nomario

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I think Seattle's position is that if he was done protesting his talent warranted a tryout, but if he planned to continue, it did not. To my mind it pretty strongly reinforces the notion that he's been black listed, which given the things the NFL tolerates, is profoundly screwed up.

Of course, it's our fault as fans too for apparently being more angered by protests than other stuff.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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And yes, they talked reportedly talked to Manziel, who would also be somewhat of a circus, but I see Kaepernick as materially higher up the ladder media circus wise. .
Yes, the guy who kneels to protest police killing people who look like him is a bigger media circus then the raging alcoholic who beats his girlfriend and can't be trusted to show up to practice sober.
 

Marciano490

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Putting Seattle aside, I think the conclusion that he's been blacklisted is not accurate. At least, it's not accurate as to most teams.

For a team like the Patriots, who already has a starting QB, Kaepernick as a back-up simply isn't worth the side show. Or at the least, I think that's a fair judgment to make. If Brady went down and the Pats were looking at Brian Hoyer as their starter, if Kaepernick was then available, I would hope they would consider him and give him a shot. But until that circumstance presents itself, all I can conclude is that Bill doesn't think Kaepernick is worth the brain damage in that role.

I'm focusing on the Pats but the same could be said of every team with a definite starter. Or two very good contenders for the role.

And yes, they talked reportedly talked to Manziel, who would also be somewhat of a circus, but I see Kaepernick as materially higher up the ladder media circus wise.

To me, the only teams we can confidently say have blacklisted Kaepernick are those with no established starter and who have chosen to let QBs of lesser talent than him compete for the job.
I wish I had someone in my life to act as an apologist as eagerly as you are for the Pats here. Kaepernick is better than Hoyer and Manziel and a far better human and less of a sideshow than other Pats players. This is about Kraft carrying water for his buddies Trump and Goodell.
 

mauidano

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I wish I had someone in my life to act as an apologist as eagerly as you are for the Pats here. Kaepernick is better than Hoyer and Manziel and a far better human and less of a sideshow than other Pats players. This is about Kraft carrying water for his buddies Trump and Goodell.
Ironically Kraft tries to show his street cred and support for African Americans who are unjustly treated by the justice system by visiting rapper Meek Mill in prison a couple days ago. I don’t get it.
 

SMU_Sox

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Yes, the guy who kneels to protest police killing people who look like him is a bigger media circus then the raging alcoholic who beats his girlfriend and can't be trusted to show up to practice sober.
The reality is that kneeling, and Kaep is the face of that, is a circus with many fans. Not many of those fans post here. I, for example, don't care that they kneel. You want to protest that's your right. I understand why you are doing what you are doing. OK now lets play ball. Is it right that Kaep could be more of a circus than Manziel? Is that just? No, it is not. But that's the reality, I think. Still those two guys and who would be a bigger circus is like arguing which stage 4 inoperable brain tumor is a better diagnosis... and who knows, maybe Johnny cleaned up, but they both, fair or unfairly, probably would be.
 

pappymojo

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I wish I had someone in my life to act as an apologist as eagerly as you are for the Pats here. Kaepernick is better than Hoyer and Manziel and a far better human and less of a sideshow than other Pats players. This is about Kraft carrying water for his buddies Trump and Goodell.
Is Kaepernick willing to play for the same salary as Hoyer and/or Manziel?
 

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Putting Seattle aside, I think the conclusion that he's been blacklisted is not accurate. At least, it's not accurate as to most teams.

For a team like the Patriots, who already has a starting QB, Kaepernick as a back-up simply isn't worth the side show. Or at the least, I think that's a fair judgment to make. If Brady went down and the Pats were looking at Brian Hoyer as their starter, if Kaepernick was then available, I would hope they would consider him and give him a shot. But until that circumstance presents itself, all I can conclude is that Bill doesn't think Kaepernick is worth the brain damage in that role.

I'm focusing on the Pats but the same could be said of every team with a definite starter. Or two very good contenders for the role.

And yes, they talked reportedly talked to Manziel, who would also be somewhat of a circus, but I see Kaepernick as materially higher up the ladder media circus wise.

To me, the only teams we can confidently say have blacklisted Kaepernick are those with no established starter and who have chosen to let QBs of lesser talent than him compete for the job.
Isn’t this the definition of blacklisted? He’s not getting a look, not because of his talent, but because he “isn’t worth the sideshow.” This league is generally about results (or expected results) but this guy is not being brought in because of reasons that have nothing to do with his possible on field role.
At least Seattle admitted this.
 

Otis Foster

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Contrast that with the NBA, which insists on treating its players as sentient human beings with a life beyond the hardwood,

I do agree that the leagues have quite different fan bases, which doesn't IMO redound favorably to the NFL - or the owners.

Kraft at least tries to offset his craven moments.
 

jose melendez

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Contrast that with the NBA, which insists on treating its players as sentient human beings with a life beyond the hardwood,

I do agree that the leagues have quite different fan bases, which doesn't IMO redound favorably to the NFL - or the owners.

Kraft at least tries to offset his craven moments.
What's interesting is that NBA requires standing, which, to its credit, the NFL hasn't.

The more I think about it, the more this is on us the American people. We care way more about winning football games than gender-based violence, but less than about black people expressing political opinions in uncomfortable ways. I'm sure the politics of most of the NFL owners are not aligned with CK's, but if their fan base didn't care, most of them probably wouldn't either. I wonder though, whether Seattle, which probably wouldn't suffer from bringing him in, has been told by other owners to let it go.
 

scottyno

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It makes way more sense for the Pats to be looking at Manziel than Kaepernick. If they're trying to figure out the potential next qb after Brady in likely 2-3 years a 27 year old Manziel makes way more sense than a 32 year old Kaep.

Also, Manziel seems to have made playing pro football his #1 priority right now, given that he played in the spring league and is considering the cfl if he doesn't get an NFL deal. Kaepernick hasn't done that, at least as far as I'm aware.
 

DJnVa

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I thin there’s some nuance here. They’re not saying he can’t kneel. They asked how he will deal with what that brings and how it will affect the team. Does he have plan in place to make sure the team isn’t adversely impacted.

 

Marciano490

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It makes way more sense for the Pats to be looking at Manziel than Kaepernick. If they're trying to figure out the potential next qb after Brady in likely 2-3 years a 27 year old Manziel makes way more sense than a 32 year old Kaep.

Also, Manziel seems to have made playing pro football his #1 priority right now, given that he played in the spring league and is considering the cfl if he doesn't get an NFL deal. Kaepernick hasn't done that, at least as far as I'm aware.
I’d imagine 32 year old Kaep is healthier than 27 year old Manziel.
 

CodPiece XL

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I know this comment is not exactly on point, but I have been stunned by the number of people I know personally or who mention family members who refused to watch NFL games last season because of the kneeling. I'm just surprised that so many walked away because of it. At least in my circle of social contacts.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I thin there’s some nuance here. They’re not saying he can’t kneel. They asked how he will deal with what that brings and how it will affect the team. Does he have plan in place to make sure the team isn’t adversely impacted.

Yeah because the owners like Richardson Allen and McNair want to keep their sterling reputations in tact. Lol. This guy is one of the 32 most talented QBs on the planet. There is zero excuse why he’s not employed other than the owners want to make 45 happy so he doesn’t go on another twitter tirade about the NFL.
 

TheoShmeo

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Isn’t this the definition of blacklisted? He’s not getting a look, not because of his talent, but because he “isn’t worth the sideshow.” This league is generally about results (or expected results) but this guy is not being brought in because of reasons that have nothing to do with his possible on field role.
At least Seattle admitted this.
I don't think so. I think it's a simple cost/benefit analysis. As a back-up, what Kaepernick brings to the table isn't worth the media shit storm.
I wish I had someone in my life to act as an apologist as eagerly as you are for the Pats here. Kaepernick is better than Hoyer and Manziel and a far better human and less of a sideshow than other Pats players. This is about Kraft carrying water for his buddies Trump and Goodell.
There's no need for an apology whatsoever. To the contrary, the Pats are making the right move for the reason noted. Conversely, they would need to apologize if Brady went down for an extended period and they chose to solider on with Brian Hoyer (unless he played well when he got the chance) when they could have brought in Kaepernick. That would be something that would demand an apology.

Yes, the guy who kneels to protest police killing people who look like him is a bigger media circus then the raging alcoholic who beats his girlfriend and can't be trusted to show up to practice sober.
The relative sins or merits of Kaepernick and Manziel is not the point. Though it does make for a snappy one-liner. The point is that the media is much more focused on Kaepernick than Manziel. Both pro and con media. At least, that's my assumption, which I think is accurate. Make no mistake, I don't like the idea of bringing in either of those guys as a back-up, for the media reason and because I don't think Manziel is likely good enough. But I see Kaep as the bigger circus and not by a small amount.
 

luckiestman

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I wish I had someone in my life to act as an apologist as eagerly as you are for the Pats here. Kaepernick is better than Hoyer and Manziel and a far better human and less of a sideshow than other Pats players. This is about Kraft carrying water for his buddies Trump and Goodell.

I don’t know if I agree about less of a sideshow. I’m not often surprised by the irrationality of sports fans but I was listening to the FAN one day and Kap came up(think it was around Ravens rumors) and the callers lit up the phones and went nuts. The hosts ( Joe and Evan) went nuts. It surprised me.
 

Marciano490

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I don’t know if I agree about less of a sideshow. I’m not often surprised by the irrationality of sports fans but I was listening to the FAN one day and Kap came up(think it was around Ravens rumors) and the callers lit up the phones and went nuts. The hosts ( Joe and Evan) went nuts. It surprised me.
What effect does that have on the players though? Does anyone think it’d upset team chemistry? Has anyone called Kaepernick a bad teammate or leader?
 

TheoShmeo

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What effect does that have on the players though? Does anyone think it’d upset team chemistry? Has anyone called Kaepernick a bad teammate or leader?
That's not the question in my book. A back-up QB on the Patriots may never see the field other than in mop up duty. So the focus is not on whether he's a bad teammate (he's probably a good one) or a leader (very few back-up QBs are in a position to lead when they are not playing). The question is whether it's worth having the constant media focus and overflow attention for a guy who will get some reps in practice and stand there waiting to play for a lot of the season.

If Kaepernick was a WR, LB or something else where he could contribute meaningfully to the team on the field, or if Brady went down, his relative value would go way up and whether the team could suffer all of the attention that came along with him would be a much easier question to answer in the affirmative.

I will freely admit that I was surprised that the Pats were willing to entertain Tebow years ago and I was glad that they did not for just these kinds of reasons (and because he sucks at throwing the football), and I think bringing in Manziel wouldn't pass the cost/benefit test either. I just think it's most extreme in Kaepernick's case given the frenzy that surrounds this guy.
 

Marciano490

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Again, what’s the practical effect on the team’s performance. These are all buzzwords and fan concerns.

And Brady damn well almost missed the AFCCG and is 40. I’d say the backup QB had a very high chance of playing this year.
 

TheoShmeo

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Again, what’s the practical effect on the team’s performance. These are all buzzwords and fan concerns.

And Brady damn well almost missed the AFCCG and is 40. I’d say the backup QB had a very high chance of playing this year.
I think it's harder to function day to day when you are have such a hot button story swirling around your team. I can't measure it but I can understand a GM/HC saying "I just don't want to inflict yet another layer of media nonsense on my team for a guy who may never play. Even if turns out to be manageable, I don't want to take the risk."

As to Brady, he has not missed any time due to injury in years, and showed no sign that age was a factor at all last year. The injury that almost stopped him was a freak occurrence.

To be fair, I have long worried about the quality of the Pats back-up QBs. Cassel surprised the hell out of me and I've always worried that having a number 2 like Hoyer or Davey left them too exposed. Jimmy G was a notable exception and I hated the trade not because the return of insufficient (though it was) but because it left them without such excellent injury insurance. But BB clearly is willing to take that chance, as he has shown for years.
 

Marciano490

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I think it's harder to function day to day when you are have such a hot button story swirling around your team. I can't measure it but I can understand a GM/HC saying "I just don't want to inflict yet another layer of media nonsense on my team for a guy who may never play. Even if turns out to be manageable, I don't want to take the risk."

As to Brady, he has not missed any time due to injury in years, and showed no sign that age was a factor at all last year. The injury that almost stopped him was a freak occurrence.

To be fair, I have long worried about the quality of the Pats back-up QBs. Cassel surprised the hell out of me and I've always worried that having a number 2 like Hoyer or Davey left them too exposed. Jimmy G was a notable exception and I hated the trade not because the return of insufficient (though it was) but because it left them without such excellent injury insurance. But BB clearly is willing to take that chance, as he has shown for years.
What’s the Pats record since one of their players was convicted for multiple murders, had a homosexual affair in prison and then killed himself leading to his family suing the league and I believe the team.

Again, I think outside media matters distracting athletes is a fan worry more than a practical concern. Especially with this team.
 

CodPiece XL

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Again, what’s the practical effect on the team’s performance. These are all buzzwords and fan concerns.

And Brady damn well almost missed the AFCCG and is 40. I’d say the backup QB had a very high chance of playing this year.
I'm just curious about this statement, I’d say the backup QB had a very high chance of playing this year. I think it may be more likely, he's a year older, at some point...maybe he drops of the cliff...but why do you think it's very high?
Edit: nevermind....I misread had for has. mea culpa.
 
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Super Nomario

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If Kaepernick was a WR, LB or something else where he could contribute meaningfully to the team on the field, or if Brady went down, his relative value would go way up and whether the team could suffer all of the attention that came along with him would be a much easier question to answer in the affirmative.
I mean, they could sign Eric Reid and then they'd have a safety of the future and they wouldn't have to play Jordan Richards anymore.
 

EricFeczko

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The whole thing is a little strange considering how blue Washington (and specifically Seattle) are.
Seattle is really the team for the PNW, excluding california, so you have a lot of rural fans throughout the pacific northwest; I suspect many of these fans are very conservative.
 

sketz

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Yeah because the owners like Richardson Allen and McNair want to keep their sterling reputations in tact.
As far as I know, one of these is not like the others. Allen has a pretty liberal reputation out here and I haven’t heard anything to suggest he’s anything like McNair or Richardson. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems like guilt by association.
 

Ralphwiggum

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What’s the Pats record since one of their players was convicted for multiple murders, had a homosexual affair in prison and then killed himself leading to his family suing the league and I believe the team.

Again, I think outside media matters distracting athletes is a fan worry more than a practical concern. Especially with this team.
Point of order! Hernandez was only found guilty of one murder.
 

scottyno

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What’s the Pats record since one of their players was convicted for multiple murders, had a homosexual affair in prison and then killed himself leading to his family suing the league and I believe the team.

Again, I think outside media matters distracting athletes is a fan worry more than a practical concern. Especially with this team.
I highly doubt Hernandez was a divisive issue in the lockerroom once it became clear what he had done. Like it or not I'm sure plenty of players are against any players kneeling during the anthem whether they'll say it publicly or not, and it's probably something the media is going to be asking them about every week.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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As far as I know, one of these is not like the others. Allen has a pretty liberal reputation out here and I haven’t heard anything to suggest he’s anything like McNair or Richardson. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems like guilt by association.
I mean money does go around and bad press does effect ratings and pockets. Allen is a liberal but he’s also a capitalist. Which really there’s nothing wrong with that. But he does have a lot to lose here.
 

sketz

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I mean money does go around and bad press does effect ratings and pockets. Allen is a liberal but he’s also a capitalist. Which really there’s nothing wrong with that. But he does have a lot to lose here.
Sure - purely from a business owner perspective, I can agree with this. But lumping him in with the other 2 who have been rather outspoken on their conservative social views just seems like a stretch to me - but maybe I’m over (or under) thinking it.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I thin there’s some nuance here. They’re not saying he can’t kneel. They asked how he will deal with what that brings and how it will affect the team. Does he have plan in place to make sure the team isn’t adversely impacted.

That's very much a copout.

At the end of the day, about 8-12 teams are heading into the season with a starting QB who isn't as good as Kaepernick, never mind a backup. He actually ranks among the best ever in one statistical category of interest to football teams.

I do credit the argument that some teams, Patriots among them, may not be interested in a Kaepernick-type veteran QB due to their offense. But that is some teams, not all of them.
 

DanoooME

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As a Seahawks fan, I'd be more than happy if Kapernick signed with the team. As long as it was for the vet minimum, because the team still has a cap crunch (no pun intended) and needs all the space it can get. He's inconsistent, but he'd be the best available backup they could get. Yes, they signed Stephen Morris the other day, but anyone that thinks he's more than a camp body is wrong (like all the dumb talking head ESPN shows). The impetus is really on the teams with shitty QB situations to sign him because that's where he could, and should get PT; as mentioned above, there are 8-10 teams with inferior QBs to him even allowing for his warts.

Pete hasn't invested any significant money in a backup since Wilson got expensive and I don't expect that to change now. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask if he has a plan to deal with all the media crap, since that will affect any team he's a part of, and he should have some idea of how he wants to express himself going forward.
 

pappymojo

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I mean, they could sign Eric Reid and then they'd have a safety of the future and they wouldn't have to play Jordan Richards anymore.
What is a reasonable contract for Reid? Two years/$12 million? Would that be good use of resources for the third safety on our team? Could they give him more time than Richards got by playing him in a hybrid linebacker/safety role?
 

pdaj

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What effect does that have on the players though? Does anyone think it’d upset team chemistry? Has anyone called Kaepernick a bad teammate or leader?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/30/colin-kaepernick-wins-prestigious-award-voted-on-by-teammates/

If anyone thought 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick was a distraction in the locker room because of his national anthem protests this year, his teammates did not agree.

Via Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com, Kaepernick was given the Len Eshmont Award, which is the most prestigious team honor which is voted upon by players.

The award is given annually to the player who embodies Eshmont’s “inspirational and courageous play.” Previous winners include Hall of Famers such as Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Ronnie Lott all the way to early players such as Y.A. Tittle, Joe Perry, Bob St. Clair, and Leo Nomellini.
 

luckiestman

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I mean money does go around and bad press does effect ratings and pockets. Allen is a liberal but he’s also a capitalist. Which really there’s nothing wrong with that. But he does have a lot to lose here.

When I mention the disgruntled fans and the sideshow angle, this is what I meant not that players would be distracted.
 

Michelle34B

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POSTPONED. The Seahawks are the only team that have even given him a workout. No other team has given him a workout since he left the 49ers.

Postponed. Not cancelled, postponed. It became a he said/she said between player and management over the postponement of a workout. I would imagine the Seahawks raised concerns about something like last year's league-wide protests in response to Trump's comments before and during week 3 of the NFL season. How is someone from the Seahawks front office supposed to offer support for their team? How does Colin Kaepernick see his social stances and winning football games both being possible as a member of the team?
 

Reverend

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What's interesting is that NBA requires standing, which, to its credit, the NFL hasn't.

The more I think about it, the more this is on us the American people. We care way more about winning football games than gender-based violence, but less than about black people expressing political opinions in uncomfortable ways. I'm sure the politics of most of the NFL owners are not aligned with CK's, but if their fan base didn't care, most of them probably wouldn't either. I wonder though, whether Seattle, which probably wouldn't suffer from bringing him in, has been told by other owners to let it go.
The NBA also has an organization and personnel who, when asked about the athletes' political views, looks at the questioner like he's an asshole and says they are grown ass men who can do what they want--and are frankly pretty good at it.

This appears not to be in the nature of NFL owners. Like, it literally repels them.
 

mauf

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That's very much a copout.

At the end of the day, about 8-12 teams are heading into the season with a starting QB who isn't as good as Kaepernick, never mind a backup. He actually ranks among the best ever in one statistical category of interest to football teams.

I do credit the argument that some teams, Patriots among them, may not be interested in a Kaepernick-type veteran QB due to their offense. But that is some teams, not all of them.
Kaepernick is 32 years old, was 3-16 a starter in 2015-16, and didn’t play in 2017. Maybe those 2015-16 Niners teams were poorly coached and he’d do better in a different situation, but guys with a recent track record like Kap’s usually have to take a backup job and wait for their next opportunity.

It’s fun to feel morally superior to NFL owners, but if I were a billionaire business owner, I’m not sure I’d be willing to make an enemy of the President of the United States to make a point — and that’s exactly what anyone who signs Kap would be doing, because there simply isn’t that big a difference in expected value between one backup QB and another; it certainly wouldn’t be a rational business decision to sign him just to realize the marginal EV he’d bring compared to, say, Josh McCown.

And just to be perfectly clear: I wasn’t a fan of Kaepernick years ago, but his courage in standing up for what he believes has won me over. I would love to see him back in the game. But I understand why that’s not going to happen, and I blame DJT and the fans, not Goodell or the owners.
 

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Kaepernick is 32 years old, was 3-16 a starter in 2015-16, and didn’t play in 2017. Maybe those 2015-16 Niners teams were poorly coached and he’d do better in a different situation, but guys with a recent track record like Kap’s usually have to take a backup job and wait for their next opportunity.
I don't think he deserves to be handed a starting job out of the gate, especially after a year out of the game, nor do I think he deserves more than an incentive-laden make good type of deal. But the NFL is full of QB dreck, some of whom start.
 

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19,615
Portsmouth, NH
It’s fun to feel morally superior to NFL owners, but if I were a billionaire business owner, I’m not sure I’d be willing to make an enemy of the President of the United States to make a point — and that’s exactly what anyone who signs Kap would be doing, because there simply isn’t that big a difference in expected value between one backup QB and another; it certainly wouldn’t be a rational business decision to sign him just to realize the marginal EV he’d bring compared to, say, Josh McCown.
I have to ask what the bolded implies? What would the fallout be from making an enemy of DJT? I can see it as an owner of a traditional business, but the NFL?

Edit: That's not even argumentative (for clarification). I'm genuinely curious what I can't think of as a possible pitfall.
 

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T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
Kap is not signing with anyone for the minimum.
I think this is a significantly under explored portion of this saga. I’ve never seen any reporting on Kap’s salary demands. When he opted out of his contract with the 49ers everything surrounding him was there but it’s only snowballed and gotten bigger since.

If when he opted out he was expecting or refused to settle for anything but a starting QB size contract then there is a much more defensible reason for him not signing with a team right away. At the end of his time in San Francisco he was producing like a backup QB. It would have been a miscalculation for him and his agent to have expected signing elsewhere for starting money.

His contract requirements are surely lower today then they were but I may feel differently about this if we found out that he was not willing to sign a contract typical of a backup QB last offseason.