Kyrie Irving: Hardwood Magician

Eddie Jurak

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Ouch. I guess on the plus side, the Celtics are just one season ending injury (Kyrie, Hayward, Theis) short of being able to add a player for the rest of the season.

Edit: Forgot Smart. I guess they are now free to add a player until someone returns.
 

tims4wins

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Great stuff! I lived 20 minutes from the campus back then and recall nearly all of those games. Kyrie was so special that year in the few meaningful games he played before the injury.
I never saw Kyrie play live. I think my brother was at the Butler game though where the injury occurred. Since he came back in the game we weren't even discussing it after the game. Then boom he was out 3 months.
 

Sam Ray Not

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They ignored one of the Giants' three titles and didn't give SF the Warriors. Hella lame.

Edit: 2013, never mind.

On topic: get well soon, Kyrie. Depressing that his knee issues and Steph's ankle issues, which seemed like things of the past, are rearing their ugly heads.
 

Gash Prex

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Not too concerned yet - my assumption is since we are locked into #2 seed, thought was to try get him as healthy as possible by the playoffs and this should give him the best chance
 

Red Averages

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Not too concerned yet - my assumption is since we are locked into #2 seed, thought was to try get him as healthy as possible by the playoffs and this should give him the best chance
This is where I come out as well, but it sounds like we'll know more in a day.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mark Murphy tweets that Cs plan on filing for disabled player exemption once KI has his procedure. Must have 4+ players scheduled to miss 10 games.

Guess that means KI's will be out 10+ days.

Anthony Bennett - come on down!

 

radsoxfan

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Bummer this ended up getting done so close to the playoffs. This kind of thing is almost always an off-season procedure unless it suddenly becomes a major pain generator.

Not sure if there is any hardware left in there or not, but theoretically the bone will be weakened for a little while post hardware removal. I doubt they want him risking it for a few weeks minimum if they’ve taken everything out, but we shall see.

Regardless, in general it’s good news. No reason to think this will be a long term issue.
 

JCizzle

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3-6 weeks seems to be a pretty wide range. I'm sure they'll want to err towards the latter
 

AimingForYoko

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Sucks but it is what it is. They wouldn't have done this if the hardware wasn't seriously affecting him.

Who knows what will happen if we can win a round without him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think it was Windhorst on NBA Radio (taped) late last night saying that Kyrie has never trusted team doctors due to the influence their employers have on their "advice" and did this surgery on own against the Celtics medical staff advice with the Isaiah situation so clear in all the players minds with the Celtics clearing him to play through his hip last year. Also said that this would be consistent with Kyrie making several visits to Dr James Andrews for his knee in Cleveland prior to allowing the Cavs team doctors do the surgery.

I like this a lot. The player must take control of their body and the decisions made to best treat the player. Don't ever allow the sole influencer be an employee of the team. Kyrie clearly went against the Celtics recommendation here.....good for him.
 

lovegtm

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I think it was Windhorst on NBA Radio (taped) late last night saying that Kyrie has never trusted team doctors due to the influence their employers have on their "advice" and did this surgery on own against the Celtics medical staff advice with the Isaiah situation so clear in all the players minds with the Celtics clearing him to play through his hip last year. Also said that this would be consistent with Kyrie making several visits to Dr James Andrews for his knee in Cleveland prior to allowing the Cavs team doctors do the surgery.
It's really really good to see Kyrie managing his own health, but I also wonder how much blowback the Celtics will get from how they handled the IT situation. He may have cost himself $50M+ following the team's advice, and if we're aware of that, you can bet players around the league are uber-aware of it.

Now that said, the only player's decision this really affects is Kyrie's (Jaylen and Jayson aren't unrestricted forever), and he does seem quite happy in Boston, so Danny may well get away with the whole caper.
 

Reverend

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Cross posting from DRS in Lombardis:

He had a wire taken out, which is part of the fixation construct we use to fix patella fractures. It actually goes around the bone, not through it, so it should be a pretty quick recovery and hopefully alleviate his issues moving forward. I’d estimate he’d be back full go in about four weeks
 

snowmanny

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Four weeks? And the Cavs planted malicious stories about Kyrie and how they were blackmailed into trading him because he was selfishly threatening to get this elective surgery that would keep him out most of the year? They are the team that should get blowback.
 

Reverend

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Four weeks? And the Cavs planted malicious stories about Kyrie and how they were blackmailed into trading him because he was selfishly threatening to get this elective surgery that would keep him out most of the year? They are the team that should get blowback.
That's a great catch--I hadn't even thought of that.

Every new data point that comes out seems to reaffirm what a good decision Kyrie made, and Danny too.
 

joe dokes

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It's really really good to see Kyrie managing his own health, but I also wonder how much blowback the Celtics will get from how they handled the IT situation. He may have cost himself $50M+ following the team's advice, and if we're aware of that, you can bet players around the league are uber-aware of it.

Now that said, the only player's decision this really affects is Kyrie's (Jaylen and Jayson aren't unrestricted forever), and he does seem quite happy in Boston, so Danny may well get away with the whole caper.
which Celtics advice?
(seriously...i only remember a lot of noise around it, but not specifics).
 

lovegtm

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which Celtics advice?
(seriously...i only remember a lot of noise around it, but not specifics).
The fact that the team cleared him to play. I don't know that the Celtics are to blame here, but the optics are definitely bad, given how his injury has played out.
 

moly99

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Kind of off topic, but it's amazing to me that there are people who have a patella with two parts (a bipartite patella) who never know it or experience any pain. Meanwhile my patella is still angry with me about the summer in college I worked as a roofer after ten years. Sesamoid bones are weird.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Now that is worth the 10 bucks! I wonder if he'll get the screws out over the summer since those will take longers to heal since they're in the bone not around.
For some reference - not sure how relevant this is - but I have some screws and plates in one of my legs. I was told if they were to remove the screws, they'd treat the recovery as if it was a broken bone as removing the screws would leave the bone with several holes that would effect the structural integrity of the bone itself.

So, unless the screws are causing him pain, they usually won't remove them. I may be full of shit, however.
 

Reverend

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So, unless the screws are causing him pain, they usually won't remove them. I may be full of shit, however.
These two things are not mutually exclusive. :p

That said, my ortho told me the same thing about hardware with respect to my patella fracture. It is entirely possible the one thing (wire) could be bothering him and not the screws, so they could be unnecessary; I was also told that there generally isn’t really injury concern so much as, if they start to hurt, they take them out and if not, they don’t.

I dunno how reputable my surgeon is, though. He was kinda a maniac, now that I think about it.
 

radsoxfan

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It's really really good to see Kyrie managing his own health, but I also wonder how much blowback the Celtics will get from how they handled the IT situation. He may have cost himself $50M+ following the team's advice, and if we're aware of that, you can bet players around the league are uber-aware of it.
It might look bad from afar, and I don't doubt NBA players talk and are very afraid of an "IT situation".

Having said that, IT's hip is probably close to shot and has been trending that way for quite a while. His labral tear diagnosis was probably the tip of the iceberg, not a major player at this point or last year. He has bad arthritis and there is nothing the medical staff could have done last season to change that (there is a reason no one wants to operate on him at this point). If a surgery was going to be a significant help (aside from a total hip replacement), it was probably needed many years ago before he got to the Celtics.

I 100% agree players need to take their health into their own hands, and should be getting second opinions instead of blindly listening to the team doc. But I wouldn't blame the team docs in the IT case at all unless there is something else that happened that hasn't been publicized.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It might look bad from afar, and I don't doubt NBA players talk and are very afraid of an "IT situation".

Having said that, IT's hip is probably close to shot and has been trending that way for quite a while. His labral tear diagnosis was probably the tip of the iceberg, not a major player at this point or last year. He has bad arthritis and there is nothing the medical staff could have done last season to change that (there is a reason no one wants to operate on him at this point). If a surgery was going to be a significant help (aside from a total hip replacement), it was probably needed many years ago before he got to the Celtics.

I 100% agree players need to take their health into their own hands, and should be getting second opinions instead of blindly listening to the team doc. But I wouldn't blame the team docs in the IT case at all unless there is something else that happened that hasn't been publicized.
* It's the information age in general and players having more professional specialists around them. 25 years ago, Jordan was a pioneer for working with Tim Glover as it was unheard of for guys to have their own personal trainer. Nowadays, teams employ their own trainers while individual players have their own personal trainer which can be a tricky situation (see: Guerrero, Alex) if their techniques and goals are different from the teams. Many players consult with outside sources now and soon I'm sure most of them will have their own medical specialists to consult with to confirm what the team doctors are recommending to protect themselves.

* Yeah, there may be information we are not privy to and it is easy for someone to take a shot and say how the doctors wrongly cleared Isaiah but without any of this knowledge it is difficult to place blame on the Celtics medical staff.
 

Reverend

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* It's the information age in general and players having more professional specialists around them. 25 years ago, Jordan was a pioneer for working with Tim Glover as it was unheard of for guys to have their own personal trainer. Nowadays, teams employ their own trainers while individual players have their own personal trainer which can be a tricky situation (see: Guerrero, Alex) if their techniques and goals are different from the teams. Many players consult with outside sources now and soon I'm sure most of them will have their own medical specialists to consult with to confirm what the team doctors are recommending to protect themselves.

* Yeah, there may be information we are not privy to and it is easy for someone to take a shot and say how the doctors wrongly cleared Isaiah but without any of this knowledge it is difficult to place blame on the Celtics medical staff.
IT's situation sounds like it is different in that, well, he was fucked.

Sometimes there aren't happy solutions.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't recall the Celtics medical staff necessarily doing anything that was different from what Isaiah wanted. Not sure there was a viable alternative in that case.

I don't really see Kyrie's procedure as being against the Celtics wishes either. He got a second opinion, which Danny and team supported. Seems from here the Celtics were fine with his approach.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't recall the Celtics medical staff necessarily doing anything that was different from what Isaiah wanted. Not sure there was a viable alternative in that case.

I don't really see Kyrie's procedure as being against the Celtics wishes either. He got a second opinion, which Danny and team supported. Seems from here the Celtics were fine with his approach.
We don't know what was viable or not but you are correct in that Isaiah wanted to play through any injury but I disagree with the second part of your post as the Celtics team doctors DID advise against surgery. Kyrie got a second opinion and had surgery. If surgery wasn't against the Celtics wishes they wouldn't have told him it wasn't necessary. These things sometimes don't end well......Rose in Chi, Kawhi, in SA, etc etc. Time will tell but I highly doubt the Celtics aren't frustrated and embarrassed behind the scenes that Kyrie went against the teams wishes.
 

lexrageorge

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We don't know what was viable or not but you are correct in that Isaiah wanted to play through any injury but I disagree with the second part of your post as the Celtics team doctors DID advise against surgery. Kyrie got a second opinion and had surgery. If surgery wasn't against the Celtics wishes they wouldn't have told him it wasn't necessary. These things sometimes don't end well......Rose in Chi, Kawhi, in SA, etc etc. Time will tell but I highly doubt the Celtics aren't frustrated and embarrassed behind the scenes that Kyrie went against the teams wishes.
I don't think we can conclude the bolded. There's a lot of uncertainty sometimes in these medical situations, and so the docs often have to resort to probabilities. The Celtics initially medical staff felt that surgery wasn't necessary, which was probably the right call to make at the time, given the information they had at the time. Starting with a conservative, non-surgical approach is often the right call. After the knee failed to respond, there is now a lot more info available to the docs. Here is what we don't know:

Would the Celtics medical staff have eventually recommended the same surgery? Did Kyrie consult the C's medical staff again after the knee failed to respond, or did he go right to his own doctor? Did the C's doctors recommend a second opinion? Did the Celtics tell Kyrie that while they disagree, they would support whatever decision Kyrie made if he got a second opinion?

There's a lot of stuff that we don't know, and I'm skeptical the guy on the podcast knows any more. Given that, anything is just speculation buy a guy that is trying to make a mountain out what is really a molehill.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I don't think we can conclude the bolded. There's a lot of uncertainty sometimes in these medical situations, and so the docs often have to resort to probabilities. The Celtics initially medical staff felt that surgery wasn't necessary, which was probably the right call to make at the time, given the information they had at the time. Starting with a conservative, non-surgical approach is often the right call. After the knee failed to respond, there is now a lot more info available to the docs. Here is what we don't know:

Would the Celtics medical staff have eventually recommended the same surgery? Did Kyrie consult the C's medical staff again after the knee failed to respond, or did he go right to his own doctor? Did the C's doctors recommend a second opinion? Did the Celtics tell Kyrie that while they disagree, they would support whatever decision Kyrie made if he got a second opinion?

There's a lot of stuff that we don't know, and I'm skeptical the guy on the podcast knows any more. Given that, anything is just speculation buy a guy that is trying to make a mountain out what is really a molehill.
Slightly concerning not his from is this tweet from yesterday:


Brad reached out to Kyrie yesterday morning and didn't hear back by game time. Probably meaningless but maybe a sign of some friction.