Let's get crazy (risky acquisitions and offseason plans)

RedOctober3829

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A source tells me that the #RedSox are still very much in play for Giancarlo Stanton. In fact the only reason that he was not hot on Boston right away is because of the cold weather. His top choice is the Dodgers, then the Giants after that if they can put together a contender.

 

Marciano490

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A source tells me that the #RedSox are still very much in play for Giancarlo Stanton. In fact the only reason that he was not hot on Boston right away is because of the cold weather. His top choice is the Dodgers, then the Giants after that if they can put together a contender.

Someone should tweet that apocryphal Twain quote about San Francisco summers to Stanton quick!
 

Bigpupp

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No team will be able to get away with an extension that is much different than comparable extensions other teams have given by by service time. So we're looking at somewhere between Matt Moore's $14 million extension and Chris Archer's $25.5 million extension.
 

simplicio

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I wasn't aware that Matt Moore and Chris Archer were also capable of being legitimate DHs.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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The bid will cost $20M. I think it’s near a lock that whatever team signs him will extend him, maybe in April to avoid the luxury tax hit like the Sox did with the Adrian Gonzalez extension. Manfred will hate it but he can’t penalize a team for taking advantage of the CBA loophole and locking up a player like that.

The tweet addresses the bonus issue, which isn’t really an issue. Think it confirms Ohtani will be getting paid regardless of the bonus. As for the amount of the contract, that’s up for debate. In the $100M-$110M range is more than fair for 7 years of control. I imagine the team will probably end up getting an additional eighth year option.

This post is 100% nonsense. Manfred made it abundantly clear that "sign and immediately extend" is not on the table for Otani.

https://www.thescore.com/news/1378639

The Bradford tweet is not proof of the contrary. It's a reiteration of the report that money is not the driving factor in Otani coming to America which is why he's posting this winter and not waiting two seasons. You have no clue what you are talking about.

And when he does get extended (whether that's after his first year, two years in or when he reaches arb eligibility) it won't be for $130M.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Scott Boras, where JD M = David Price

also I can't say I love Stanton being concerned about our weather - speaks to wrong priorities
 

simplicio

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So you think the possibility of him being a passable DH is worth an additional $90 million?
How much would you pay for a passable DH over 7 years or so? More importantly, how much would you pay to be able to field a 26 man roster over that time?
 

mlthomaas

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This post is 100% nonsense. Manfred made it abundantly clear that "sign and immediately extend" is not on the table for Otani.

https://www.thescore.com/news/1378639

The Bradford tweet is not proof of the contrary. It's a reiteration of the report that money is not the driving factor in Otani coming to America which is why he's posting this winter and not waiting two seasons. You have no clue what you are talking about.

And when he does get extended (whether that's after his first year, two years in or when he reaches arb eligibility) it won't be for $130M.
You are the most gullible person on this board if you think Ohtani will not sign an extension with his team. If you want to debate his contract, be my guest.

There is absolutely nothing Manfred can do to prevent Ohtani and his new team agreeing to a first year extension. Doing so would be illegal of Manfred and the MLBPA would never allow the commissioner to prevent an extension of a player and a club. The only thing he can prevent is if there is illegal collusion between any team and Ohtani during this signing process to promise him future money.

Maybe Ohtani signs this month, or early December. May 2018 rolls around and he signs a huge extension with the Sox/whatever team. That’s legal.
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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Is this a possibility? All I've seen is that they can pay the posting fee and a (severely limited) signing bonus, but salary is governed by the CBA. Obviously extensions are possible at some point but to do this immediately as a way to circumvent the bonus limits would almost certainly draw fire from Manfred.
Can't they sign him to a deal where he can opt out on May 1st or somewhere thereabouts? Sign him for whatever the Sox cap is and agree to terms on an extension to be announced during the season.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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You are the most gullible person on this board if you think Ohtani will not sign an extension with his team. If you want to debate his contract, be my guest.

There is absolutely nothing Manfred can do to prevent Ohtani and his new team agreeing to a first year extension. Doing so would be illegal of Manfred and the MLBPA would never allow the commissioner to prevent an extension of a player and a club. The only thing he can prevent is if there is illegal collusion between any team and Ohtani during this signing process to promise him future money.

Maybe Ohtani signs this month, or early December. May 2018 rolls around and he signs a huge extension with the Sox/whatever team. That’s legal.
Cite your sources. Your opinion runs counter to literally everything we've heard about this situation.
 

Cesar Crespo

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How much would you pay for a passable DH over 7 years or so? More importantly, how much would you pay to be able to field a 26 man roster over that time?
I can't see any team risk playing him at DH on off days. It's nice in theory.
 

Bigpupp

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How much would you pay for a passable DH over 7 years or so? More importantly, how much would you pay to be able to field a 26 man roster over that time?
Its not what I would pay. It's what past precedence says should be paid, and when Jon Singleton got extended before earning a day of service time he got $10 million spread over 5 years. So no, I don't think any team is willing to promise an extra $80 million to a player just for giggles.
 

Bigpupp

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I mean FFS, let's get back to reality on this one. Under the rules allowed, Ohtani will make around $1.5 million for the first 3 years of service he earns. No GM will be allowed to pay him approximately $40 million per year for his remaining years of control.
 

E5 Yaz

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Can we come up with a Buchholz-style default for every time someone spells Otani incorrectly
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Cesar Crespo

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That’s going to be the biggest factor where he signs, not 3 million dollars.
I'm also not sure promising him a DH spot is wise unless you expect him to be an above average hitter. I guess if he was an average hitter, you could use a little of the money you saved at the DH spot to improve elsewhere but I think teams would typically want more offense from the DH spot.
 

timlinin8th

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I'm getting my spelling from b-ref, ESPN and The Associated Press. Where are you seeing that it's spelled with an h?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=otani-000sho
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/261840310/shohei-ohtani-the-hot-topic-at-gm-meetings/

MLB has started spelling it that way. I joked above with the kanji, but in all honestly any romanization of his name isn't "right" or "wrong", just everyone commonly agreeing to spell a pronunciation a certain way.
 

Bigpupp

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Snodgrass'Muff

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So basically the opposite of what you are arguing will happen. They talk about him being extended after a "suitable amount of time." Interpreting that to mean April or May of 2018 is idiotic.

He will not be extended during his first year. He might not be extended before the end of his second year, but the absolute earliest it would happen is after his first season. If a team tries it, MLB will intervene. Manfred has made it clear that violating the rules for IFA's will be responded to harshly and the rules are written in such a way as to avoid actually drawing the line in the sand, instead leaving that determination up to the league in each situation. The CBA actually has this passage in it:

No Club or player (including their designated representatives) may enter into any understanding, agreement, or transaction, or make any representation, whether implied or explicit, that is designed to defeat or circumvent the provisions of the International Amateur Talent System. Any Club (or its representatives) that is found to have engaged in circumvention or attempted circumvention will be subject to sanctions by the Commissioner, including fines, suspensions, non-approval of the transaction(s) or contract(s), and loss of future signing rights. A non-exclusive list of conduct that will subject Clubs (and Club personnel) to sanctions includes:
They actually wrote in a clause that lets them decide what is and isn't against the rules without having to describe it all up front. If Manfred thinks a team is circumventing the spirit of the law, he will step in.

Oh, and signing an extension in April or May doesn't let you avoid the AAV hit for a year. The "Adrian Gonzalez loophole" no longer exists. Instead, when the contract is signed, the AAV is calculated for the full deal and the AAV is then prorated for the amount of the season left to play. (Article XXIII, C (2)(c), and Article XXIII E (2).)

You can keep telling us all how it's going to go down (ignoring everything that we actually know about the situation) or maybe you could spend a little time reading up on the CBA instead.
 

Tokyo Sox

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Correct! I think everyone should go with "Ohtani" going forward. That's what he has on the back of his own jersey, and that is the more accurate romanization of his name pronunciation-wise. And in September I discovered that's how it's spelled on the Sapporo Dome scoreboards, which incidentally have...kind of a lot going on:
ohtani.jpg

It used to be more common to see him called Otani in English language media, which is why I originally spelled it that way in the Ohtani thread, but I've just changed the name of the thread. The difference is that 大 is technically spelled with two hiragana o's. It's the same kanji in Tomo Ohka's last name, but also in Akinori Otsuka's. So there's no hard & fast rule, but adding the h will keep you from saying the O too quickly, and get you closer to the correct pronunciation.
 

TimScribble

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Even if the Red Sox have the pieces to trade for Giancarlo Stanton, there's a belief the Marlins slugger won't accept a trade to Boston. Or to St. Louis, for that matter.

A baseball source said yesterday that he’s been told Stanton will not accept a trade to either the Red Sox or the Cardinals, another team linked early and often in trade rumors. Perhaps there’s some flexibility in that stance, but Stanton’s preference is a factor.”
 

judyb

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Maybe David Ortiz could have a talk with him and explain that the only time he had to spend in Boston when it's really cold from November through March was during World Series parades.
 

GoDa

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I don't think the Padres have any particular reason to move him, but I wouldn't mind seeing Wil Myers in a Red Sox uniform. He's the right age. His contract is reasonable and long. And, I'd like to believe some Fenway magic dust would help him deliver some career years.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I guess I'd give them something like Chavis and Travis and take on all of Stanton's deal - if they'd also take back Hanley. Then I'd sign Santana for 1B.

Crazy, I know, but it does address MIA's need to reduce salary short term and long term while giving them value in return (albeit not "top" prospects). And it serves most of the Sox's needs.

Which of course means Stanton would be the one to nix it!
 

Green (Tongued) Monster

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Giancarlo Stanton trade development: Sources say multiple teams told #Marlins that Stanton’s contract (10 years, $295 million) is roughly what he’d receive on open market. Thus, #Marlinswould need to include cash in order to obtain high-level prospects. @MLB @MLBNetwork
Exactly my point from post 373. His contract is market appropriate as it is. Why people would be ok trading E-Rod or even Benintendi for the rights to that contract is mind boggling.
 

IpswichSox

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Taking on Stanton pretty much straight up without having to send any top-tier prospects? Then flip one of the outfielders for a 1B or prospects? I think I'd sign up for that if that were the deal (which it probably won't be).
 

grimshaw

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Exactly my point from post 373. His contract is market appropriate as it is. Why people would be ok trading E-Rod or even Benintendi for the rights to that contract is mind boggling.
Completely nuts, I agree. I would think that the very best players at premium positions like SS, aces or shut down closers bring back more, even at market value. But he's a power hitter in a beefed up league. There is a lot of value to be had elsewhere.

We'll hopefully know pretty soon, but I would think no one pulls the trigger on something moronic until the asking price went down.
 
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Snodgrass'Muff

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RedOctober3829

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Interesting note on Martinez from Sean McAdam.

This year, Boras represents Eric Hosmer, Mike Moustakas, and J.D. Martinez – arguably, the three best bats in this free agent class.

An executive with another club Wednesday noted that no team was more disappointed than the Red Sox when Martinez switched representation to Boras last month.

“They thought (signing Martinez) was going to be a slam dunk (previously),’’ the executive said.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2017/11/15/baseball-offseason-may-progress-slower-others/
 

Muppet

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Is it Just Boston that has this apprehension of dealing with anything Scott Boras? Or is this something league wide?

I obviously don't naturally get access to the local media in the US, and I've always been curious about why there seems to be a sigh of resignation as soon as a desirable free agent is announced to be represented by him.

I would figure that all agents would be pushing for the best deal for their clients.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Boras takes his sweet ass time to bleed every penny out every owner that he can - sometimes to the detriment of his client. His approach is the exact opposite of what we've seen here with Dombrowski. He likes to identify a target and move as fast as he can.

Does anyone know if DD has dealt with an upper echelon Boras player before?
 

Muppet

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Boras takes his sweet ass time to bleed every penny out every owner that he can - sometimes to the detriment of his client. His approach is the exact opposite of what we've seen here with Dombrowski. He likes to identify a target and move as fast as he can.
I getcha, thanks for that.

EDIT: And Savin too.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Is it Just Boston that has this apprehension of dealing with anything Scott Boras? Or is this something league wide?

I obviously don't naturally get access to the local media in the US, and I've always been curious about why there seems to be a sigh of resignation as soon as a desirable free agent is announced to be represented by him.

I would figure that all agents would be pushing for the best deal for their clients.
Boras has a well-established reputation of being a more high-stakes negotiator than most agents. He will play chicken with the market rather than making a priority of getting a pretty good deal early on. It's a strategy that has failed on more than one occasion (e.g. Stephen Drew 2014), but when it works, it works big.
 

sean1562

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It almost failed with Matt Weiters too, until the Nats gave him that stupid 1 year deal with a $10 mil player option.