NFL's Declining Viewership: One Slice at a Time

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,957
Saskatoon Canada
These numbers almost match.

According to a survey last week from the California Interscholastic Federation, "football participation [in the state] actually decreased by 3.12 percent over the past year and about 10 percent over the past decade," per Ann Killion of the San Francisco Chronicle.
To that end the big problem for the NFL is declining HS football numbers. It looks like a slow inevitable decline, and tweaking the broadcasts, new announcers, etc probably can't stop the decline.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2726124-report-shows-continuing-drop-in-high-school-football-players

When my sister did her undergrad in marketing there was a page about market research with good example, bad example.

The NFL was the good example, showing that men that had played high school football were at a very high level going to watch the NFL, and liley to watch more than one game on Sundays. Carolina was ready for a NFL team but high school football participation in NC was down. The NFL wanted the owners to put money into buying equipment, promoting HS football before getting a franchise. The bad example was the NHL moving into non traditional hockey parts of the USA and doing nothing to promote hockey until after the teams were already playing games.

At any rate the NFL can't count on the same tried and true loyal viewers.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
This is why Thursday Night Football isn’t going anywhere — when there’s a halfway-decent matchup, the ratings are terrific.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ratings-bucs-patriots-thursday-night-football-stay-170933480.html

CBS announced it and NFL Network did an average 11.1 rating with a 19 share for the New England Patriots’ win over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on Thursday night. Those ratings don’t even include digital viewing numbers on Amazon Prime, which weren’t available early Friday. The television ratings are a 26 percent increase from last season’s Week 5 Arizona-San Francisco game on CBS and NFL Network....

Consider that the Yankees-Twins wild-card playoff game on Tuesday night, which had an enormous 58 percent increase from 2016 because the Yankees were in it, had a 5.2 overnight rating. That game faced no real competition in the sports viewing marketplace on Tuesday night. The Buccaneers-Patriots 11.1 rating, despite going up against a Game 1 ALDS matchup between the Yankees and Indians, more than doubled that AL wild-card game rating.
 

CFB_Rules

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2016
1,603
The NFL was the good example, showing that men that had played high school football were at a very high level going to watch the NFL, and liley to watch more than one game on Sundays. Carolina was ready for a NFL team but high school football participation in NC was down. The NFL wanted the owners to put money into buying equipment, promoting HS football before getting a franchise. The bad example was the NHL moving into non traditional hockey parts of the USA and doing nothing to promote hockey until after the teams were already playing games.
This has changed. The nature of my job means I have a lot of contact with football coaches, both high school and NCAA. Almost to a man they tell me the same thing: Our players don't watch football, and we have no idea why.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,957
Saskatoon Canada
This has changed. The nature of my job means I have a lot of contact with football coaches, both high school and NCAA. Almost to a man they tell me the same thing: Our players don't watch football, and we have no idea why.
A light bulb went off for me This has to be true. The text book was from the 90s

I expect it is the electronic induced HDD.

Perhaps the NFL can't appeal to the attention span of today's kids. I mean even when I watch I gamethread, watch stuff on my pvr at commercials.

The shock for me is it true about my high school players. My guys who play basketball, I expect, just watch youtube clips. What they say tends to be right out of bleacher report's front page, and lacks the understanding of a person that watches entire games.. Harden is a lousy defender, Lebron flops, Curry never misses, etc. If they know Draymond Green it is he kicked a guy in the nuts.
 
Last edited:

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,058
Hingham, MA
Papa John's is mad at the NFL

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21250448/nfl-sponsor-papa-john-not-happy-anthem-protests

"The NFL has hurt us," company founder and CEO John Schnatter said. "We are disappointed the NFL and its leadership did not resolve this."

Executives said the company has pulled much of its NFL television advertising and that the NFL has responded by giving the company additional future spots.

"Leadership starts at the top and this is an example of poor leadership," Schnatter said, noting he thought the issue had been "nipped in the bud" a year and a half ago.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
14,012
Mansfield MA
In revising sales estimates for the next quarter, Papa John's president and chief operating officer Steve Ritchie said on the call that the NFL deal was the primary suspect behind the decline and that "we expect it to persist unless a solution is put in place."
Their sales numbers are crappy and they're scapegoating the NFL.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
61,996
New York City
Their sales numbers are crappy and they're scapegoating the NFL.
Dominoes is crushing them right now in the pizza game. I make no claims to the quality of either pie, but Dominoes has had an unbelievably great business run in the past 5 years. Whatever they are doing is working and Papa J's is taking the brunt of it. lol boo hoo
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,460
Dominoes is crushing them right now in the pizza game. I make no claims to the quality of either pie, but Dominoes has had an unbelievably great business run in the past 5 years. Whatever they are doing is working and Papa J's is taking the brunt of it. lol boo hoo
Domino's redid their pizza to make it pretty good by national chain standards, while Papa John's is bad by gas station food standards also their ordering, tracker etc are way better. Basically they are smoking him by putting out a better product, a better experience and similar or better prices. He's running scared.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,240
I dont think I've ever eaten either one, but they are both ubiquitous advertisers, and I think that Domino's marketing campaigns have been 1000% better than PJs over the last 5 years.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,089
A Scud Away from Hell
Wait, what? How much is an average pizza there?
About half for the "native" brands. Pizza Hut is somewhere in the middle. A lot of the extra $ goes to super glitzy marketing and ad purchases as competition is absolutely fierce among a dozen or so brands.

I feel dirty rooting for Goodell but hope he stands firm against Trump & PJ pressures.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
If you live in a place where ordering Papa Johns (or Dominos, for that matter) is a serious option, you should think about moving, because those places are bad.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,487
Santa Monica, CA
What Dominos or Papa Johns is open at 3am? I thought they close at like 11?

Also, every halfway decent city has a local pizza place that is open until 4am. And that local place cannot be worse than Dominos or Papa Johns. It's not possible.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,559
Here
What Dominos or Papa Johns is open at 3am? I thought they close at like 11?

Also, every halfway decent city has a local pizza place that is open until 4am. And that local place cannot be worse than Dominos or Papa Johns. It's not possible.
The ones in DC used to be open past midnight, as I recall, though I think Dominos made it until 2 or 3. Outside of NYC, is there a place where local pizza places are open past 4? Miami?
 

GeorgeCostanza

tiger king
SoSH Member
May 16, 2009
7,286
Found in central mass
What Dominos or Papa Johns is open at 3am? I thought they close at like 11?

Also, every halfway decent city has a local pizza place that is open until 4am. And that local place cannot be worse than Dominos or Papa Johns. It's not possible.
The park Ave dominos in Worcester is open til 4am on the weekends. And that's close to as good as it gets, especially late night options. Worcester pizza is a fucking abomination
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,936
I can get great pizza in Boxford. Hard to believe that there isn't a good joint in Worcester. Maybe you hang out with the wrong people.
 

Big John

New Member
Dec 9, 2016
2,086
The league is in a catch-22. Fans are attracted to the violence but the league has to cut back on the hitting for legal reasons. For starters they have turned kickoffs into a boring excuse for more commercials.
 

Quiddity

New Member
Oct 14, 2008
237
I have had Papa Johns once in my life, in New Haven, CT. It sucked. Papa Ginos, Pizza Hut and Dominos all the way.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,483
The 718
If you eat franchise pizza in New Haven you are an idiot. should be shot.
FTFY

Back on point for the thread: for the high schoolers, I really think it's as simple as:

--1000000's of more things to watch, and devices to watch them on
--Shorter attention spans. I get impatient with the 10-minute replay challenge, and showing the same play 15 times, and commercials, etc. If I'm 15 and I don't have a lifetime invested in watching, screw that.
--Re: high school players not watching full games: it's shocking and disturbing how overburdened high school students are now, with the pressure to max out activities for college applications, maintain grades, etc. A HS football player probably has many more demands on his time than 30 years ago. My niece is now in HS in CT, and in a marching band that competes at the regional/national levels. She has practice almost every day after school for a couple of hours, and football or competition Saturdays are morning - to - midnight. She has high-end instruction in her instrument (French horn) an AP schedule on top of that, sundry resume-builders for college, plus a community service requirement. I doubt today's football players are watching 3 hours of anything in a row.
 
Last edited:

Rough Carrigan

reasons within Reason
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
FTFY

Back on point for the thread: for the high schoolers, I really think it's as simple as:

--1000000's of more things to watch, and devices to watch them on
--Shorter attention spans. I get impatient with the 10-minute replay challenge, and showing the same play 15 times, and commercials, etc. If I'm 15 and I don't have a lifetime invested in watching, screw that.
--Re: high school players not watching full games: it's shocking and disturbing how overburdened high school students are now, with the pressure to max out activities for college applications, maintain grades, etc. A HS football player probably has many more demands on his time than 30 years ago. My niece is now in HS in CT, and in a marching band that competes at the regional/national levels. She has practice almost every day after school for a couple of hours, and football or competition Saturdays are morning - to - midnight. She has high-end instruction in her instrument (French horn) an AP schedule on top of that, sundry resume-builders for college, plus a community service requirement. I doubt today's football players are watching 3 hours of anything in a row.
But NFL ratings only declined the last couple years while those trends have, as you note, been going for 30 years. That might be a part of an explanation but doesn't fit timing, does it?
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,681
Doesn't Peyton Manning own a bunch of these? Maybe he'll go broke?
He did indeed - http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/8553736/peyton-manning-invests-21-denver-papa-john-pizza-shops

Let's also not forget that Papa John was literally the first person Manning looked to embrace after winning Super Bowl 50, before even his wife.

I've had Papa John's once, at a party after they first opened in Syracuse, and it was bland and forgettable. Eating the grease-stained box would probably be a more enjoyable experience.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 3, 2001
44,855
Mtigawi
I once had a Dunkin Donuts bagel in New York City. It sucked. Just go buy yourself some delicious Lender's and make them at home.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,993
Newton
Let's also not forget that Papa John was literally the first person Manning looked to embrace after winning Super Bowl 50, before even his wife.
In fairness to Manning, we had this:



Also in fairness to Manning, he may have been worried his wife would crush the vertebrae in his neck with her super human strength.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
10,103
He did indeed - http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/8553736/peyton-manning-invests-21-denver-papa-john-pizza-shops

Let's also not forget that Papa John was literally the first person Manning looked to embrace after winning Super Bowl 50, before even his wife.

I've had Papa John's once, at a party after they first opened in Syracuse, and it was bland and forgettable. Eating the grease-stained box would probably be a more enjoyable experience.
Hey you know who else is a big Papa John's franchisee? Jerry Jones! Per Florio:
On Wednesday, the CEO of Papa John’s blamed a decline in earnings on a decline in NFL ratings, which he in turn blamed on the lingering anthem controversy. In response, some blame Cowboys CEO Jerry Jones for putting Papa John up to it.

Jones has become a significant Papa John’s franchise owner, with the total number of stores owned by Jones in excess of 100 as of 2014.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/02/some-think-jerry-jones-was-behind-the-papa-johns-rant/
 

phenweigh

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 8, 2005
1,379
Brewster, MA
About half for the "native" brands. Pizza Hut is somewhere in the middle. A lot of the extra $ goes to super glitzy marketing and ad purchases as competition is absolutely fierce among a dozen or so brands.

I feel dirty rooting for Goodell but hope he stands firm against Trump & PJ pressures.
My SK pizza experiences are dated (the aughts) but the Pizza Huts in Daejeon and Gwangju were about the most expensive restaurants in the city. In Changwon I frequented Mr. Yoo's Pizza. The pizza was OK, but the real treat was it was BYOB and he had a Pope John Paul II bottle opener.
 

Grimace-HS

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 8, 2012
844
Grabbed a couple slices for lunch today. Pretty damn good. Coincidentally right around the corner from the Park Ave Dominos.

So, thank you!
You're going to love that place George. The Amherst location provided much of my nutritional needs in the early 2000s...I miss that place!
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2008
1,899
Lunenburg, MA
You're going to love that place George. The Amherst location provided much of my nutritional needs in the early 2000s...I miss that place!
Yup. Lived in Easthampton when they opened up shop there. One of the greatest days of my now significantly shortened life due to their slices.

Nearly cried when I saw they were opening in Worcester last year. Been playing pied piper bringing locals in ever since.
 

Remagellan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I know this might surprise the Trump supporters here, but I was over a friend’s house recently and a mutual friend of ours who is African-American came over and admitted that he hadn’t watched the NFL at all this season, as he was boycotting the NFL because of their unfair treatment of Colin Kaepernick. And he is not alone. Another guy in our fantasy league dropped out for the same reason.

I hope they extend their boycott to Papa John’s, because that franchise deserves to be driven out of existence for its founder’s many sins, not the least of which is selling shitty pizza.
 

joeflah

New Member
Feb 1, 2015
57
My SK pizza experiences are dated (the aughts) but the Pizza Huts in Daejeon and Gwangju were about the most expensive restaurants in the city. In Changwon I frequented Mr. Yoo's Pizza. The pizza was OK, but the real treat was it was BYOB and he had a Pope John Paul II bottle opener.
Had pizza at Regina’s in the North End in summer of 2014. I live in California and haven’t had pizza in a restaurant or as takeout since. Wont either.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,470
Somewhere
According to this page the number of streaming service subscribers increased from 51% to 58% from 2016 to 2017.

Correspondingly, the number of pay (cable/satellite) television subscribers has been declining.

People don't want to organize their lives around fixed entertainment schedules anymore and live sports are going to be hurting for that.