This thread is turning into something I love/hate about this board. It set out to be about coming up with crazy ideas about how to improve the team out of the box. Now you have the people that are going completely nuts never happening ideas(gold), the someone out of the box trades/signings(interesting), and the “your trade idea is dumb because the WAR is off by .3!!!!” people(ugh just die). Live a little people... or just drink more
I took his meaning to be he would do what he had to in order to join a competitive team. I don't think there's much chance of him ending up in Boston, but it's nice to know he wouldn't force another roster move if Dombrowski figured out a way to make a trade work as well as payroll under the LT threshold's upper tier.
This is why I don't think we match up at all. They are going to be looking to seed their next core. That means they will want prospects or major leaguers who have used up little to no control. Pomeranz and Kelly will have zero value to them. Even Eduardo's value is severely limited considering he's entering his arbitration years this winter.
Quoted for truth. If the Sox are going to get Stanton, it's not going to be with an offer like that. They'll need a headliner, someone like Bogaerts or Beni, because the farm is a mess and they really can't compete with someone like the Dodgers or Yankees unless they include one of the young MLB pieces. Kelly has almost no value to a team like Miami. ERod and Pom are nice pieces, but not something you trade Giancarlo Stanton for. If I'm MIA, I'd rather have Gleyber Torres on his own than that poo poo platter.
Is anyone actually arguing anything more than the farm is in rough shape? If I've missed it I apologize, but I don't recall reading much criticism beyond a few people not liking individual trades that Dombrowski has made.
Agreed, but I wouldn't go as far as to say the potential fit isn't there at all.
In the post above mine above, Elcaballitomvp writes "because the farm is a mess..." That's was I referencing. Sure, it's perfectly reasonable to say we don't have the trading chips we once did or that we don't have the minor league talent ready to impact the major league roster -- that's fair. But to say it's a mess signals that the author believes the system has been mismanaged or is a Dumpster fire that can't produce talent. Yes, the system is currently thin at the upper ranks but that's because we've graduated a ton of players who are currently starters on the Red Sox and used others in trades to acquire an elite starting pitcher and closer. That was my point I was trying to make against those who seemingly are critical of the current state of the minor league system.
I think you're reading too much into it. I won't try to speak for elcaballitomvp, but the farm is, in fact, a mess regardless of how it got there. I agree it got there in the best possible way, but they are years from having any chance at a top 20 prospects unless they got really lucky in the draft or one of their IFA signings explodes onto the scene next year.
Yeah, you're definitely reading too much into my "farm is a mess" comment. I was just trying to say that the farm, as it exists now, is nothing special. What's the system ranked now? Maybe top 20? DD has used almost all of the prospect chips he had in past deals. Our current #1 prospect is a 19 year old pitcher who was injured for a significant amount of his first full season. Compare that to a team like the Yankees, Dodgers or Astros, and we simply can't compete in a prospects for Stanton deal. Miami isn't going to want pitchers like Joe Kelly or Pomeranz in that deal, which is what I was commenting on. That's why I said it would take a young big league piece, like one of those homegrown pieces that have graduated from the Sox system that you mention.
I'd bet everything I own that Bryan Mata has significantly more trade value than Marco Hernandez.
Yeah, I was thinking Ben10 for Schwarber and Baez but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it.
Am I the only one that looks at that proposal and goes "NOOOPE?"
That's why I didn't mention it because I wouldn't do it. But if you believe that Schwarber is that .900 OPS bat and that Baez is an above average offensive player to go with his defense, that deal is enticing. Baez and Schwarber are under control until 2022. Baez could replace either Pedroia or Bogaerts long term.
Well in all fairness here we currently don't have an answer to a pretty big variable factor which also has to go in to that NOOOPE, in whether or not the Sox are going to embrace second tier LT spending.
Let’s get even crazier Benintendi, Price for Schwarber, Baez, and Lester. That’s pretty much the only deal I would be willing to trade Benintendi in as unlikely as it is.
Not to intrude on your sidebar ... but let's not forget some currently top-ranked farm systems—The Yankees', at any rate—were largely bought and traded for, rather than "generated."
Why does Beni keep getting dangled as trade bait rather than Bogaerts? (And let's not say because Bogaerts is a SS, which he really isn't, or won't be for long.)
I would love him. Plus he can (presumably) still play some 2b which would be perfect to fill in for Pedey - though he hasn't played as many games there recently. 2 yrs/28 remaining is reasonable too. I don't think he'd cost a fortune to acquire.
I think that depends a lot of what else is going on around it.
This is simple:
I agree with both your points here. The JBJ for Schwarber question though becomes a little tougher and might be a net gain for both teams while not hurting the Sox payroll..... then would adding Martinez for LF be a good second move? Or would the Sox stashing Schwarber at 1B/DH be enough of an offensive boost and then just looking to add a replacement for JBJ (CarGo to LF?).....
That's the real question. However, given the Cubs don't really NEED an OF and JBJ is older and has a lower ceiling than Benintendi, I don't see why they'd really be all that interested. If I were them and I'm dangling Schwarber, I'm probably aiming for a high-ceiling raw arm, a steady 3/4/5 kind of guy, or something more along those lines since he doesn't have enough value or utility to net a Ben-10 and they need pitching more than anything else.
He's 31 and coming off a career year. He's never shown any ability to hit before this season.
I really don't think they should sign Cozart (or replace Xander, period), but the obvious answer to your question is that Cozart, even at 32, is an above-average defensive shortstop, and Xander is not. I will confess to being a little concerned about the left-side infield defense over the next few years, especially with a rotation that seems likely to be made up of at least 3, maybe 4 lefthanders.
It's not that simple though until you see how many years and how much total money the best (while still relatively young) hitter to enter free agency in quite some time ends up costing. That is going to be a huge long term dice roll in itself.
Cozart has averaged a generally defensive heavy 2.6 bWAR in his six full seasons (not counting his initial cup of coffee season), Bogaerts has averaged a generally offensive heavy 2.7 (again, not counting his cup of coffee in 2013). It's essentially a wash in terms of their value, but if defense is the priority, I can see preferring Cozart. But is the defense worth the several million dollars more that he'll command? Not so sure it is, unless you believe the improvements at the plate are not an aberration.
Recognizing that we need to start doing more to stay ahead of the retool curve (now that we won't be getting those post 1st round picks when our quality players walk anymore), and rearranging the deck chairs accordingly (while still doing our best to avoid overall steps backwards) to hopefully better accommodate that process, is actually my core approach of choice here. Again, it's not that I'd like giving up Ben10 there, but I'm also not so gung-ho on him that I can't image a future that sees us keep the better CF Bradley instead. Creating a hole in LF in general doesn't ring the same panic alarm for me that it might for others either.
