2017 Celtics Offseason: News and General Discussion

smastroyin · Jul 10, 2017

You forgot Theis, and because of him I think at least two of Zizic, Yabu, and Ojeleye will be logging Red Claw minutes.

The problem Ojeleye has is where are his minutes going to come from? Sure, you can say they will play more 3 wing rotations, but unless you roll back Crowder's time a ton, if you assume increased time for Brown plus Tatum getting Brown-like minutes, there just aren't that many minutes for him. And I know you have Morris listed as PF, but he's really plays more like a heavy wing.

Cesar Crespo · Jul 10, 2017

Eddie Jurak said:
So what are we looking at for a roster:

C: Horford, Baynes, Zizic
PF: Morris, Yabusele
Wings: Hayward, Crowder, Brown, Tatum, Nader, Ojeleye
PG: IT, Smart, Rozier

That's 14. I think Mickey and Jackson need to go to make salary room for Yabusele

The actual 10-man rotation figures to be Horford, Baynes, Morris, Hayward, Crowder, Brown, Tatum, IT, Smart, and Rozier.

Horford, Hayward, and IT will start, as will (probably) Crowder.

The other starter will likely be either Smart, Brown, or Baynes. The question is whether they intend to run with a small lineup by starting Horford at the 5 and Crowder at the 4, in which case they will go with Brown or Smart, or whether they want an actual center to start, in which case Baynes starts.

Baynes, whether he starts or not, will probably play an Amir Johnson type role in terms of minutes.

I don't see a whole lot in the way of playing time for Zizic, Yabusele, Nader, or Ojeleye - I'd guess that Zizic and Ojeleye (based on his summer league 3 and D-ing) are the two who will dress for most games and have the greatest shot at carving out a few minutes this year.

Theis is 15. He could provide 15-20 minutes or be cut in 2 weeks but theoretically he is a rim protector who is also a stretch big. Who do you see as our 2 way deals? I could see it being Zizic and Ojeleye. How do the 2 way contracts even work? Are we only allowed to have 2 players in the G league?

Cesar Crespo · Jul 10, 2017

Also worth noting yet again that the rosters expanded to 17 this year (15 contracts/ 2 two way contracts.)

smastroyin · Jul 10, 2017

I believe you can have as many GLeaguers as you want but if they are NBA roster guys they are still on your roster for all intents and purposes (i.e. for roster size and cap purposes) The 2 way contracts are special in that you don't have to count them for the cap in the off-season and they aren't much. But unlike other GLeaguers you don't have to sign them to bring them up. I think you might see Bird and Allen on 2 ways?

wade boggs chicken dinner · Jul 10, 2017

bosox79 said:
Theis is 15. He could provide 15-20 minutes or be cut in 2 weeks but theoretically he is a rim protector who is also a stretch big. Who do you see as our 2 way deals? I could see it being Zizic and Ojeleye. How do the 2 way contracts even work? Are we only allowed to have 2 players in the G league?

Here's something on the two-way contracts. https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/ywzepv/how-the-nbas-new-two-way-contracts-will-affect-the-draft-and-beyond

Basically, it means that two players can log up to 45 days on a NBA roster and get paid the NBA minimum during those up to 45 days. G-Leaguers not on 2-way contracts and not signed to a NBA contract are basically free agents and can be signed to any team.

Zizic is already signed to a contract (for his rookie scale) so he won't need to have a two-way contract.

So there are (like everything else in life) pros and cons of accepting or turning down a two-way contract.

I would suspect that one of Bird/Allen is going to get one, as Boston is short of PGs and one of them probably see some incentive of being the 2-way guy for that position. Bird has been more impressive to me but Allen (I think) has been coming in first and getting more minutes so what do I know.

I doubt that Ojeleye would take a two-way contract. He's getting some good press so if the Cs don't have the ability (roster or cap space) to sign him to a minimum guaranteed contract, he's going to shop his services to some other team.

Finally, Nader will be an interesting case because DA had to sweet-talk him into signing a D-League contract last year not having a roster spot. I'm sure that came with some assurances he'd be strongly considered to make the NBA team this year.

Cesar Crespo · Jul 10, 2017

Ok, makes sense. So they can sign Semi to an NBA contract and still have him play in Maine. I see Zizic and Yabu getting some time in Maine as well. Was Yabu on a 2 way deal this past season to be able to play in Maine or is there some special situation there? Old rules?

smastroyin · Jul 10, 2017

Anyone can play in the GLeague if they have the roster space. I believe the player just has to be willing. Like you could send Horford there.

Eddie Jurak · Jul 10, 2017

smastroyin said:
You forgot Theis, and because of him I think at least two of Zizic, Yabu, and Ojeleye will be logging Red Claw minutes.

The problem Ojeleye has is where are his minutes going to come from? Sure, you can say they will play more 3 wing rotations, but unless you roll back Crowder's time a ton, if you assume increased time for Brown plus Tatum getting Brown-like minutes, there just aren't that many minutes for him. And I know you have Morris listed as PF, but he's really plays more like a heavy wing.

I think any minutes for Ojeleye would be filling in for injured guys. I had thought he and Zizic would be at the front of the line for those kind of emergency minutes.

But good point on Theis. Yes, I think he slots in ahead of the others. Maybe he is the 11th man and Zizic and Ojeleye are 12 and 13.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Jul 10, 2017

Yabu signed a contract with Maine to play for the remainder of their season: http://gleague.nba.com/news/guerschon-yabusele-signs-d-league-contract/.

He had signed a one-year deal with Shanghai; my guess is that once the season ended, he was basically unsigned so signed a contract with Maine. None of this affected his Celtic rights.

mcpickl · Jul 10, 2017

wade boggs chicken dinner said:
I doubt that Ojeleye would take a two-way contract. He's getting some good press so if the Cs don't have the ability (roster or cap space) to sign him to a minimum guaranteed contract, he's going to shop his services to some other team.

You can always sign a guy to a minimum contract, even if you're over the cap.

Problem with second round picks is you need either cap space, or an exception, to sign them to more than a two year deal for the minimum.

Celtics have carved out enough space, assuming they waive Mickey and sign Yabusele, to sign Ojeleye to a longer deal starting around 1.1M or so.

He'll definitely be signed to a one-way contract. I think he and his agents are just trying to decide if they'd rather have two years at the minimum, or tie themselves up longer for more guaranteed money.

the1andonly3003 · Jul 12, 2017

is Danny waiting for Summer League to finish so DJax can be released before making Hayward official?

Auger34 · Jul 12, 2017

the1andonly3003 said:
is Danny waiting for Summer League to finish so DJax can be released before making Hayward official?

No, they are going to waive Jordan Mickey and then Hayward can be signed. Not sure what the hold up is on Hayward but it has nothing to do with waiting for SL to finish to waive DJax

DavidTai · Jul 12, 2017

tbb345 said:
No, they are going to waive Jordan Mickey and then Hayward can be signed. Not sure what the hold up is on Hayward but it has nothing to do with waiting for SL to finish to waive DJax

I think the holdup on Hayward in this case is waiting for the physicals for the Bradley/Morris trade to pass, clearing room to do the signing.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 12, 2017

wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Finally, Nader will be an interesting case because DA had to sweet-talk him into signing a D-League contract last year not having a roster spot. I'm sure that came with some assurances he'd be strongly considered to make the NBA team this year.

I was told by a very reliable source that Nader was drafted with the D-League agreement already in place. Had his agent not agreed to these terms Ainge was prepared to draft another player at 58 who would agree to this as we didn't have a 15th roster spot and didn't want to punt the pick.

HomeRunBaker · Jul 12, 2017

DavidTai said:
I think the holdup on Hayward in this case is waiting for the physicals for the Bradley/Morris trade to pass, clearing room to do the signing.

This is correct. It had to do with the physicals of other players to ensure that the trade which opened up the necessary cap trade is completed.

DJnVa · Jul 12, 2017

Morris was apparently in town Monday for his physical. Not sure about Bradley's schedule.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Jul 12, 2017

HomeRunBaker said:
I was told by a very reliable source that Nader was drafted with the D-League agreement already in place. Had his agent not agreed to these terms Ainge was prepared to draft another player at 58 who would agree to this as we didn't have a 15th roster spot and didn't want to punt the pick.

You are correct but if you recall, there was at least a couple of tense moments where people thought that Nader might actually accept his tender, go to training camp, and force the Cs to cut him so he would be a free agent. For example, https://www.celticsblog.com/2016/8/9/12411626/celtics-and-rookie-abdel-nader-still-at-odds-over-where-he-ll-play-this-season

But at end of the day, he lived up to the, err, arrangement and it looks like he'll have an honest chance to compete for the last spot on the Cs roster this season.

Van Everyman · Jul 12, 2017

Damn, had hoped we could bring him back on short money. Gonna miss that guy. And his street accent.

Sprowl · Jul 13, 2017

Gøødbye och farväl, Jønas

Eddie Jurak · Jul 13, 2017

Van Everyman said:
Damn, had hoped we could bring him back on short money. Gonna miss that guy. And his street accent.

I had hoped the same, but after the Morris and Baynes deals, just no room for him. The Swedish Adrian Dantley?

PedroKsBambino · Jul 13, 2017

Would you invest a roster spot in Tiago Splitter?

Obviously, Celts have only vet min salary open, but he just worked out for Clippers and thus would appear to be open to that. If he's healthy he's useful, and odds are he won't be healthy so for me the question is using a roster spot for the potential he is an option in the spring.

I guess I land on waiting and seeing if he stays on the market into the season...

nighthob · Jul 13, 2017

He isn't worth releasing Nader, so no.

Cesar Crespo · Jul 13, 2017

Why are people "high" on Nader? I don't see it. I know we are talking about the 16th or 17th spot on the roster so "high" is a relative term.

nighthob · Jul 13, 2017

Nader may or may not ever be an NBA rotation player, but in a limited 3 & D role he might be something. Splitter is an injured big man that would be being signed to backup the backup center, and there's a chance that Semi Ojeleye might already be able to fill that role (he did a pretty legit job bodying up Zubac in summer league).

So, all told, I'm not sure it's worth cutting Nader in order to secure the remote chance that Tiago Splitter will be healthy enough to be the backup backup big come playoff time.

Devizier · Jul 13, 2017

Sprowl said:
ø

Technically Danish or Norwegian if you prefer.

With that said, hej då Jonas!

sox311 · Jul 14, 2017

Bulpett tweets that Celts have waived Jordan Mickey.

He had signed the most lucrative 2nd round contract ever, too bad he won't be able to collect it in its entirety. Hopefully he can catch on somewhere.

RedOctober3829 · Jul 14, 2017

Boston and 2016 second-round pick Abdel Nader have agreed in principle on a four-year, $6M rookie deal, league sources tell The Vertical.

Ed Hillel · Jul 14, 2017

Wow, that's a great deal. He has a real shot to add a solid 10-15-minutes off the bench. Locking him up for four years with minimal risk is fantastic.

DJnVa · Jul 14, 2017

Is it weird the Celtics aren't streaming this press conference? CSNNE is, but I'm blacked out.

BannedbyNYYFans.com · Jul 14, 2017

DrewDawg said:
Is it weird the Celtics aren't streaming this press conference? CSNNE is, but I'm blacked out.

NM, sorry. Misread your post.

Fishy1 · Jul 14, 2017

Ed Hillel said:
Wow, that's a great deal. He has a real shot to add a solid 10-15-minutes off the bench. Locking him up for four years with minimal risk is fantastic.

Does this mean Ojeleye won't be signing his rookie deal?

I think ten minutes is a possibility on a lot nights. Assuming a starting lineup of something like Isaiah, Marcus, Hayward, Crowder, Horford, this team has 6 guys now (Brown, Tatum, Yabusele, Morris, Theis, and Nader) between 6'6 and 6'9 vying for backup minutes at the 2,3 4.

If Marcus is backing up Isaiah instead, and Brown is starting at the 2 (given that's what they rolled with when Bradley went down, that might be the more likely possibility), Rozier probably gets buried a little, and some minutes open up. Then you've got Tatum, Yabusele, Morris, Theis, Nader all coming in in some combination, depending on match-ups and demonstrated defensive capability, for those back-up minutes. Brown might only play 20 minutes some nights if he's playing like ass, so there'll be somewhere around 50-58 minutes for those guys to nab. If I had to guess, Tatum and Morris are going to get around 20 a night (if not more, in Morris' case) mostly behind Hayward and Crowder, leaving Theis and Yabusele to fight for whatever scraps are left over at power forward, and Nader to fight over the minutes behind Brown with Rozier and maybe Tatum. Bradley's leaving is a blessing for him sure.

And yes, I almost forgot Theis.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Jul 14, 2017

posted this in the NBA offseason thread but it should have been here so I am going to re-post. Sorry for the duplication. At any rate, with the Nader signing, I suspect DJax's contract does not become fully guaranteed tomorrow so I think the roster looks something like this:

Gordon Hayward / 29,727,900
Al Horford / 27,734,405
Jae Crowder / 6,796,117
Isaiah Thomas / 6,261,395
Jayson Tatum / 5,645,400
Marcus Morris / 5,000,000
Jaylen Brown / 4,956,480
Marcus Smart / 4,538,020
Aron Baynes / 4,328,000
Guerschon Yabusele / 2,247,480
Terry Rozier / 1,988,520
Ante Zizic / 1,645,200
Semi Ojeleye / 1,167,333
Abdel Nader / (815,615)
Daniel Theis / 815,615
Two-Way contract 1 (Kadeem Allen?) / 75,000
Two-Way contract 2 (Jabari Bird?) / 75,000
TOTAL SALARIES: 103,667,480 + whatever Nader is earning over the minimum this season, if anything

wade boggs chicken dinner · Jul 14, 2017

Also, I hope people didn't go out and snap up too much of the "7-11 merchandise"

Nick Kaufman · Jul 14, 2017

How come it's Adidas? I thought Nike was becoming the official supplier of kits next year.

DJnVa · Jul 14, 2017

Yeah, that's interesting. But I read somewhere that Nike technically takes over on 10/1/17, so maybe adidas is just trying to capitalize now.

luckiestman · Jul 14, 2017

Let me ask you hoop, not hoople, heads something. I don't know much beyond what I see on the court and read, so my general question is how do players who arent playing much but do travel with the team get better during the year?

Here is what I do know.

Coach Stevens always talk about the lack of practice time during the year.

When Kardashian played for us there were stories that on nights he and KO didn't get playing time, they would do grueling post game workout.

With our deep roster, a lot of guys we hope are good in the future won't be getting many minutes in the present.

So, is there any insight on how a guy like Tatum or (and maybe moreso ) guys like Zizic and Semi are going to get better during the year. For example, if Semi knows he is going to get a DNP- CD, what does his game day look like?

Imbricus · Jul 14, 2017

wade boggs chicken dinner said:
posted this in the NBA offseason thread but it should have been here so I am going to re-post. Sorry for the duplication. At any rate, with the Nader signing, I suspect DJax's contract does not become fully guaranteed tomorrow so I think the roster looks something like this:

Gordon Hayward / 29,727,900
Al Horford / 27,734,405
Jae Crowder / 6,796,117
Isaiah Thomas / 6,261,395
Jayson Tatum / 5,645,400
Marcus Morris / 5,000,000
Jaylen Brown / 4,956,480
Marcus Smart / 4,538,020
Aron Baynes / 4,328,000
Guerschon Yabusele / 2,247,480
Terry Rozier / 1,988,520
Ante Zizic / 1,645,200
Semi Ojeleye / 1,167,333
Abdel Nader / (815,615)
Daniel Theis / 815,615
Two-Way contract 1 (Kadeem Allen?) / 75,000
Two-Way contract 2 (Jabari Bird?) / 75,000
TOTAL SALARIES: 103,667,480 + whatever Nader is earning over the minimum this season, if anything

They're letting Demetrius go? That leaves them with only three true guards who have some experience. Hmm. I'm not sold on Nader. He's got a little repertoire of flashy moves, but not sure how they're going to play at the next level. He had a reputation for turnovers, but don't think that was an issue during summer league anyway.

Montana Fan · Jul 14, 2017

luckiestman said:
if Semi knows he is going to get a DNP- CD, what does his game day look like?

JakeRae · Jul 14, 2017

Imbricus said:
They're letting Demetrius go? That leaves them with only three true guards who have some experience. Hmm. I'm not sold on Nader. He's got a little repertoire of flashy moves, but not sure how they're going to play at the next level. He had a reputation for turnovers, but don't think that was an issue during summer league anyway.

They have three point guards. Stevens doesn't really believe in a second guard position. They have plenty of guys who can play the wing position.

Cesar Crespo · Jul 14, 2017

Imbricus said:
They're letting Demetrius go? That leaves them with only three true guards who have some experience. Hmm. I'm not sold on Nader. He's got a little repertoire of flashy moves, but not sure how they're going to play at the next level. He had a reputation for turnovers, but don't think that was an issue during summer league anyway.

Jackson has all of 5 games/19 minutes of NBA experience.

nighthob · Jul 14, 2017

luckiestman said:
Let me ask you hoop, not hoople, heads something.

What if we're both?

luckiestman said:
I don't know much beyond what I see on the court and read, so my general question is how do players who arent playing much but do travel with the team get better during the year?

Here is what I do know.

Coach Stevens always talk about the lack of practice time during the year.

When Kardashian played for us there were stories that on nights he and KO didn't get playing time, they would do grueling post game workout.

With our deep roster, a lot of guys we hope are good in the future won't be getting many minutes in the present.

So, is there any insight on how a guy like Tatum or (and maybe moreso ) guys like Zizic and Semi are going to get better during the year. For example, if Semi knows he is going to get a DNP- CD, what does his game day look like?

They're going to be getting a lot of run in Maine during the regular season to work on their games. Tatum is going to get run with the parent team because he's got the skill base to play, he just needs to adapt to the speed of the NBA and to spend time in the workout room working on his body. Hayward is going to be a big help in that regard given how he's remade himself over the last couple of years.

Cesar Crespo · Jul 14, 2017

Don't they always have to have 12 or 13 players on the roster? That means 2 or 3 of Semi, Theis, Yabu, Zizic, Bird and Nader will always be on the bench. I also think Zizic is a lock to get 10 minutes a game if he's on the team.

wade boggs chicken dinner · Jul 14, 2017

Imbricus said:
They're letting Demetrius go? That leaves them with only three true guards who have some experience. Hmm. I'm not sold on Nader. He's got a little repertoire of flashy moves, but not sure how they're going to play at the next level. He had a reputation for turnovers, but don't think that was an issue during summer league anyway.

I think this move is as much about three years from now as today. Maybe DA hopes that if Nader can keep improving, then he'll be a serviceable wing off the bench for really cheap. It's pretty clear that the Cs are going to need serviceable, cheap guys to fill out the roster before long.

And it seems easier to get serviceable PGs (see Yogi Ferrell and Ron Baker, among others) than it is to get serviceable wings these days.

Kid T · Jul 14, 2017

bosox79 said:
Don't they always have to have 12 or 13 players on the roster? That means 2 or 3 of Semi, Theis, Yabu, Zizic, Bird and Nader will always be on the bench. I also think Zizic is a lock to get 10 minutes a game if he's on the team.

Depends on his development. I can see Stevens rotating Horford and Baynes at the Center spot and and rotating Gordon, Crowder, Tatum, Brown, Smart, IT (if playing with Rozier) rotating through the 3 wing spots. I could also potentially see Tatum/Yabusele as the 3rd big if Zizic doesnt prove capable.

Cellar-Door · Jul 14, 2017

Surprised Nader got roster spot. Tomorrow is the last day to cut Jackson before he's fully guaranteed, so barring a trade we'll likely know then whether he or Semi gets the last spot

Cesar Crespo · Jul 14, 2017

I think Semi all but guaranteed himself a contract with his play in the summer league. He showed he could hit the open 3 and even guarded Zubac effectively. If it translates to the NBA game, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get regular rotation minutes. Stevens was gushing about his defense.

DJnVa · Jul 14, 2017

bosox79 said:
I think Semi all but guaranteed himself a contract with his play in the summer league. He showed he could hit the open 3 and even guarded Zubac effectively. If it translates to the NBA game, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get regular rotation minutes. Stevens was gushing about his defense.

Yeah, and that gushing wasn't just in the context of him playing well in summer league, it was how he will compete to be one of the better defenders on the roster.

And during one of the games, the announcers said Stevens sees 3 positions: ball handler, wing, and big. Ball handler doesn't simply equal PG in what he envisions.

2017 Celtics Offseason: News and General Discussion

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