Seems like there was nothing premature about that assessment.Fwiw Jones was involved in a similar banana incident in 2013 that he prematurely labeled as racist.
Seems like there was nothing premature about that assessment.Fwiw Jones was involved in a similar banana incident in 2013 that he prematurely labeled as racist.
I don't know how the response works when people use the text option that Fenway broadcasts before the game but I have seen security react pretty quickly when it's brought to their attention in person. They've come up and asked folks to cut out the swearing or whatever when someone complains. I've seen it first hand when a group of us were asked to sit down during the World Series because people behind us couldn't see, but that's outside the scope here.Fans reporting other fans for this kind of behavior would seem to be the most critical element in trying to minimize it. There is simply no way the security staff can be expected to catch all such incidents first hand. Is there anything the Red Sox can do, that they aren't currently doing, to encourage it? Honest question. I go to 10-15 games a year, sit in the bleachers, and have never really had any experience reporting anyone. Does security take it seriously, and are they responsive enough?
I would amend this: no second chances. You get caught using racist language, even once, you're banned for life. Period. That's the way soccer teams in the Premier League do it, and that's the way it should be done here.It ought to be reported, and the team should have a two-strike policy. First time, you're thrown out for that game. Second time, you're banned for life. Make season ticket holders strictly accountable for the behavior of those using the tickets. Not perfect, but good.
And no, there is no free speech right to use the n-word in a venue packed with tens of thousands of people where alcohol is liberally served.
That is a fantastic idea. I don't expect it to happen, but symbolically, it would be cool.I think Fenway's best response would be to give Jones a Standing O tonight.
I'm not against banning the guy for life in theory, but how does that work as a practical matter? Every ticket taker has to have have his face committed to memory and be able to recognize him in an instant, with no false positives? I'm not especially good at recognizing faces, so maybe it's not quite the problem I think. Do parks have facial recognition software?It ought to be reported, and the team should have a two-strike policy. First time, you're thrown out for that game. Second time, you're banned for life. Make season ticket holders strictly accountable for the behavior of those using the tickets. Not perfect, but good.
And no, there is no free speech right to use the n-word in a venue packed with tens of thousands of people where alcohol is liberally served.
You're right, as a practical matter. but the symbolism is pretty powerful.I'm not against banning the guy for life in theory, but how does that work as a practical matter? Every ticket taker has to have have his face committed to memory and be able to recognize him in an instant, with no false positives? I'm not especially good at recognizing faces, so maybe it's not quite the problem I think. Do parks have facial recognition software?
As for holding ticket holders accountable for the people who use the seats, that seems unreasonable in a day when StubHub is partnered with MLB.
30 ejections does bother me. Then again, I don't know how many there are each night on average, and how many there are in other cities. Context matters. Also, I assume that many were related to drunkenness, as opposed to something more insidious. Please do not read that as a whitewash of public drunkenness, I just think the difference matters somewhat.Maybe it's just me, but does the fact that there were 30 ejections last night bother you at all? I mean I don't go to a ton of sporting events, but it seems like 30 ejections on one night at a non-football game is really really excessive, particularly if they were limited to the CF bleachers. I find it remarkable that no one has commented on this other than saying that Jones was wrong when he said 50-60.
Here's the official Red Sox statement: "The Red Sox want to publicly apologize to Adam Jones and the entire Orioles organization for what occurred at Fenway Park Monday night. No player should have an object thrown at him on the playing field, nor be subjected to any kind of racism at Fenway Park. The Red Sox have zero tolerance for such inexcusable behavior, and our entire organization and our fans are sickened by the conduct of an ignorant few. Such conduct should be reported immediately to Red Sox security, and any spectator behaving in this manner forfeits his/her right to remain in the ballpark, and may be subject to further action. Our review of last night's events is ongoing." http://m.redsox.mlb.com/news/article/227801168/red-sox-statement-regarding-adam-jones-incident-at-fenway-park/?partnerId=as_bos_20170502_72022666&adbid=859400527775285248&adbpl=tw&adbpr=40918816
As mentioned above, Red Sox officials confirmed that there were dozens of ejections.
You can start judging now.
If this happens again, anyone think someone like Mookie or JBJ would take a stand...and sit?I think Fenway's best response would be to give Jones a Standing O tonight.
As a practical matter, there is going to be slippage. Just do the best you can.I'm not against banning the guy for life in theory, but how does that work as a practical matter? Every ticket taker has to have have his face committed to memory and be able to recognize him in an instant, with no false positives? I'm not especially good at recognizing faces, so maybe it's not quite the problem I think. Do parks have facial recognition software?
As for holding ticket holders accountable for the people who use the seats, that seems unreasonable in a day when StubHub is partnered with MLB.
That is the most troublesome part of the whole thing for me too. But never underestimate human being's desire to avoid conflict. At least I hope that's it, and not that a whole crowd of people quietly enjoyed and supported it. Which would be worse.What does surprise me is that the surrounding fans tolerated it and allowed it to go on. I find that much more depressing.
I'd never put myself in the position of losing the tickets as a result of the actions of some a-hole.
I am 100% in agreement with this. I'm also for the teams social media accounts to tell us every time it happens to reiterate the point for the jackwagons who don't get it.I would amend this: no second chances. You get caught using racist language, even once, you're banned for life. Period. That's the way soccer teams in the Premier League do it, and that's the way it should be done here.
Why not both? Either way, yes, it would be a cool move.Yeah, if I was going to the game tonight I'd stand and applaud him during his first at bat - not in support of Adam Jones, but out of detest of bigotry.
If you're on social media today, it might be a good idea to throw this out there and see if it can get some traction. A little grass roots support and maybe Jones will see that not all of Boston is a racist cess pool. #standingjOnesYeah, if I was going to the game tonight I'd stand and applaud him during his first at bat - not in support of Adam Jones, but out of detest of bigotry.
I'd love to see this, but baseball is an inherently conservative (as in, don't make waves or changes) sport and I'd be pretty surprised if either guy did something like this, as they're both young players trying to concentrate on their season.If this happens again, anyone think someone like Mookie or JBJ would take a stand...and sit?
Seems like it's already happening to some degree.If you're on social media today, it might be a good idea to throw this out there and see if it can get some traction. A little grass roots support and maybe Jones will see that not all of Boston is a racist cess pool. #standingjOnes
Because I don't have strong feeling either way about Jones, but I do have very strong feeling only one way about bigotry.Why not both? Either way, yes, it would be a cool move.
I don't know about Atlanta or NY, but tickets at Camden are about half what they are at Fenway. Seats that are $150+ at Fenway are $60-70 in Camden, and seats that are $30-60 are $15-20. In addition, on a lot of games the Eutaw street seats get released day of for $5.Definitely possible. Though it doesn't explain fully why people of color are so much better represented at Yankees games. It's been a while since I lived in Atlanta or visited Fenway South at Camden Yards, but I remember being struck there by the sight of many non-whites in the stands. And I don't think the ticket prices are wildly higher in Boston than NY, Baltimore and Atlanta, though that may be incorrect.
But not victims of bigotry, apparently.Because I don't have strong feeling either way about Jones, but I do have very strong feeling only one way about bigotry.
You sit in an area where the tickets cost many hundreds of dollars. The bleachers last night were $10 (tier 5 game) and there are lots of those $9 student seats around.I disagree with your point.
I am not denying what happened last night. Not at all.
My point is that I think it's relevant to the conversation that racist comments were not pervasive throughout Fenway. Maybe that's obvious to you or others, but one could take away from Jones' statements that Fenway was this ugly den of racism, and that it pervaded the park. And that was not my experience.
The typical Fenway game has fewer than 5 folks kicked out. Many games have zero.I'll leave it to @thestardawg to provide commentary on the number of people being ushered out in that area but 30 people being kicked out of anywhere in the park for various infractions (underage drinking, fake ID, general drunkenness, random fight, etc.) doesn't seem that odd. If there were 30 people being kicked out of one section of the park over the course of the night it would probably be noticeable.
Two? Under what excuse do they get a second chance to be racist? ONE and DONE.It ought to be reported, and the team should have a two-strike policy. First time, you're thrown out for that game. Second time, you're banned for life. Make season ticket holders strictly accountable for the behavior of those using the tickets. Not perfect, but good.
And no, there is no free speech right to use the n-word in a venue packed with tens of thousands of people where alcohol is liberally served.
Love thisI think Fenway's best response would be to give Jones a Standing O tonight.
No, but you ban them from buying tickets and that will solve most of the problem.I'm not against banning the guy for life in theory, but how does that work as a practical matter? Every ticket taker has to have have his face committed to memory and be able to recognize him in an instant, with no false positives? I'm not especially good at recognizing faces, so maybe it's not quite the problem I think. Do parks have facial recognition software?
As for holding ticket holders accountable for the people who use the seats, that seems unreasonable in a day when StubHub is partnered with MLB.
Too many entrances, would slow down the process, and expensive. Tell them they are banned, ban them from buying tickets (e-mail address and address) and put the fear of Papi into them. Hell, make them MEET Big Papi and let him have a short chat with them.Facial recognition software has come a long way. Scan the face of everyone who gets ejected. Put it in a memory bank. Scan faces on the way in and match. It sounds Brave New World-ish, but it's possible.
More folks are removed each night due to "gravity" than due to "drunkeness". And general drunkeness and this act are quite different from each other.30 ejections does bother me. Then again, I don't know how many there are each night on average, and how many there are in other cities. Context matters. Also, I assume that many were related to drunkenness, as opposed to something more insidious. Please do not read that as a whitewash of public drunkenness, I just think the difference matters somewhat.
Separately, I share in the positive reaction to the Sox statement and would love to see Jones cheered...in his first at bat.
Side note, but mistaken identity does happen. I've been at games when certain fans have been complete asses, and security comes down and ejects the wrong people.Two? Under what excuse do they get a second chance to be racist? ONE and DONE.
Please don't twist this. I abhor bigotry.But not victims of bigotry, apparently.
I hope you understand the connection between peanuts and African Americans. And why that is racism in of itself.So it's confirmed that a peanut bag was thrown at Jones. Is the part that actually involved racism confirmed?
Because throwing stuff at players is poor form, but it's not a Klan activity. It feels like there's lots of racing to accept Jones' claims and trash Boston fans here without any real corroboration.
No confirmation but per Kennedy on EEI 34 fans were ejected last night, one was the peanut thrower and one was ejected for unspecified "language directed at a player".So it's confirmed that a peanut bag was thrown at Jones. Is the part that actually involved racism confirmed?
Because throwing stuff at players is poor form, but it's not a Klan activity. It feels like there's lots of racing to accept Jones' claims and trash Boston fans here without any real corroboration.
Thanks for your hope! But I don't. Why don't you explain it.I hope you understand the connection between peanuts and African Americans. And why that is racism in of itself.
So "lathered"? I just wanted to hear some corroboration before I get on the "let's give Adam Jones a standing ovation for calling our city racist" train.Which means "racist" language, given Jones' statements last night and the Sox' official apology today.
I really wish folks would not be so lathered to try to find some scenario where the racist statements did not happen. They undoubtedly did, and the Sox need to find a way to stop this from happening in the park.
I know the peanut gallery connotation.Thanks for your hope! But I don't. Why don't you explain it.
So you think the Red Sox are lying when they apologized to Jones and said no player should be the subject of any kind of racism?So it's confirmed that a peanut bag was thrown at Jones. Is the part that actually involved racism confirmed?
Because throwing stuff at players is poor form, but it's not a Klan activity. It feels like there's lots of racing to accept Jones' claims and trash Boston fans here without any real corroboration.
I've never known that to have any racial connotation.I know the peanut gallery connotation.
It could be I guess or maybe a drunk idiot(which there were reports this guy was) had peanuts in his hand and threw them at the player.I hope you understand the connection between peanuts and African Americans. And why that is racism in of itself.
I totally believe it could've happened but before I 100% believe this, I'd want to see some corroboration - a video / audio recording, confirmation from someone who works at fenway or other witnesses.
my read of the USA Today article linked in Nightingales' tweet is that red sox officials confirmed the peanut throw, but not the racist taunts.
Fwiw Jones was involved in a similar banana incident in 2013 that he prematurely labeled as racist.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/13/sport/orioles-jones-banana-incident/index.html
I'm reserving judgment until corroborating info comes out (for now i'll say there's about a 1 in 2 chance it went down that way).
That's where the black patrons were asked to sit in segregated theaters.I've never known that to have any racial connotation.
What are you looking for - a video confession from the culprits? A grand jury finding? There's enough there to generate an apology from the RS, and apparent corroboration of the general problem from Price.So it's confirmed that a peanut bag was thrown at Jones. Is the part that actually involved racism confirmed?
Because throwing stuff at players is poor form, but it's not a Klan activity. It feels like there's lots of racing to accept Jones' claims and trash Boston fans here without any real corroboration.