Rajon Rondo out indefinitely with a broken thumb

ThePrideofShiner

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So, you're saying there's a chance?

Rondo fractured his thumb and is out indefinitely. That surely changes the series, as he was playing very well.

 

DJnVa

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Jerian Grant come on down.

I'm not sure Grant can equal the 11 points, 10 assists, and 8.5 boards Rondo was doing this series.
 

RetractableRoof

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Nice.

IT will still be giving up 5 inches to Grant, but he's nowhere near the threat Rondo is, meaning IT doesn't need as much help.
It was inviting a beating to have IT and Rondo on the court at the same time. Engaged Rondo has one huge hole in his game - outside shooting. Not defending him into that weakness allows him to be elite.
 

kelpapa

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Isaiah Thomas: 11 TO w/ Rondo on court ... 0 w/ Rondo on bench this series. IT's Net Rating is 20.4 w/out Rondo, -12.9 w/ him #CelticsTalk
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Rondo had been dominating his matchup with IT. He was abusing him on offense and making things really difficult on the defensive end. He was particularly good at denying IT the ball because he knew the sets we were trying to run. Hopefully the injury to Rondo helps free up IT offensively, although we'll probably see more Butler vs IT if Grant can't get the job done.

I'm not sure if the Bulls use Grant in the post-up, but defensively this should help the C's, as well. Rondo was routinely in the paint. If IT didn't get help, Rondo went to the hoop or posted him up. If help came, he was finding the open man like vintage Rondo. We'll likely see more Butler and Wade, but I think we'll see better team defense without Rondo initiating the offense and getting into the paint. If the Bulls go ISO with Butler/Wade, they're a little more predictable and Stevens should be able to come up with a game plan to better hide IT on that end.

The loss of Rondo's rebounding should also help, but I'm sure Lopez will continue to annoy us.
 

kelpapa

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How many minutes could IT possibly have played in these two games without Rondo on the floor?
That's a fair point. Rondo played 26:59 the first game and 40:22 in game 2. Thomas played 38:00 in game 1 and 41:47 in game 2. So game 1 is at least 11 minutes, but I'm not sure where to find the actual number.
 

DJnVa

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Said another way, we commit turnover every 2 minutes, 40 seconds with Rondo on court, and one every 4 minutes 8 seconds when he's not playing.

That's the difference between 12 TOs a game, and 18. 12 TOs is top 5 in NBA, 18 is dead last (by 2 TOs a game).

Assuming we revert to close to our season number 12.6/game, that's 5-6 more possessions each game.
 
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kelpapa

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I'm not sure how to read this. If I filter through stats.nba.com, I can get their head to head matchups. It says they averaged 31.6 minutes on the court and 2.1 minutes off the court over two games. So that is 4.2 minutes total off the court between the two, but there are at least 12 minutes where they have to be off the court. Does anyone know what the discrepancy is from?
 

kelpapa

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I think I see what the issue is. To get the totals, I have to swap Isaiah and Rondo, and then add the two sets together.
 

The Big Red Kahuna

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I'm not sure how to read this. If I filter through stats.nba.com, I can get their head to head matchups. It says they averaged 31.6 minutes on the court and 2.1 minutes off the court over two games. So that is 4.2 minutes total off the court between the two, but there are at least 12 minutes where they have to be off the court. Does anyone know what the discrepancy is from?
According to that link, Rondo averaged 33.7 minutes/game, and 31.6 of those were with IT on court.
Conversely, IT averaged 39.9 minutes, and 31.6 of those were obviously with Rondo on court.

So, IT averaged 8.3 minutes/game without Rondo on court.
 

kelpapa

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According to that link, Rondo averaged 33.7 minutes/game, and 31.6 of those were with IT on court.
Conversely, IT averaged 39.9 minutes, and 31.6 of those were obviously with Rondo on court.

So, IT averaged 8.3 minutes/game without Rondo on court.
Thanks. I haven't played around with that tool.
 

TheoShmeo

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Pity the Bulls wont be at full strength tonight.

And if and when the series comes back to Boston, it's definitely not a pity that the Garden crowd will be spared another chance to embarrass themselves with the silly booing.
 

Reardon's Beard

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I was proud of what he was doing and his leadership. But I am very glad he will be out against the Celtics.

Let's take the fight to Chicago.
 

Soxy

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Pity the Bulls wont be at full strength tonight.

And if and when the series comes back to Boston, it's definitely not a pity that the Garden crowd will be spared another chance to embarrass themselves with the silly booing.
The booing struck me as odd as well. Other than Ray Allen, I can't think of any Celtic from the Pierce-KG teams that deserves being booed. Certainly not Rondo.
 

Jimbodandy

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It was inviting a beating to have IT and Rondo on the court at the same time. Engaged Rondo has one huge hole in his game - outside shooting. Not defending him into that weakness allows him to be elite.
This was pissing me off the first two games. IT should know to play off Rondo and dare him to shoot. Watching IT up tight and getting turnstiled was maddening.

Not sure that there was an adjustment coming, so this injury is obviously pretty key to the series.
 

HomeRunBaker

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lars10

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This changes everything if he can play effectively.....the ball movement that forces the defensive rotations which allowed the Bulls to kill us on the offensive glass in the first two games is again in play.
I can't imagine he'll be able to pass and dribble easily with his broken thumb. And how well will he be able to shoot? Seems like a horrible decision in the long term to play. With that said IT has been also very different in 3 and 4 (confidence and attitude wise). As goes IT so do the celts.
 

BigSoxFan

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This changes everything if he can play effectively.....the ball movement that forces the defensive rotations which allowed the Bulls to kill us on the offensive glass in the first two games is again in play.
I don't know how you play effectively with a fractured thumb but I'd still prefer he not play. His defense really bothered IT those first 2 games.
 

Cesar Crespo

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how well is he able to shoot even with a healthy thumb? He's better than the other alternatives.
 

Sprowl

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I remember Rondo trying to play a playoff game with a dislocated left elbow. It wasn't pretty.
 

mandro ramtinez

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I remember Rondo trying to play a playoff game with a dislocated left elbow. It wasn't pretty.
And yet even with the elbow injury, Rondo helped the C's win game 3 and get to overtime in game 4 against the Heat in that 2011 series. All things considered, I'd rather game 5 go off sans Rondo.
 

RetractableRoof

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He is stubborn enough and mentally tough enough to pull this off. I don't know how effective he would be, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was able to find a way to be effective.

If this were hockey the first two shifts would result in a slash or three to the hand, what is the basketball equivalent?
 

Saints Rest

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I remember reading or hearing an interview with RR just the other day, probably from after G4, where he said that he couldn't even use a knife and fork. And now he can play??
A. He was exaggerating on Sunday (a different sort of "pulling a Roethlisberger")
B. He's lying now or engaged in some gamesmanship
C. He will suck in G5
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't know how you play effectively with a fractured thumb but I'd still prefer he not play. His defense really bothered IT those first 2 games.
It will certainly add to the drama of a Game 5 in a 2-2 series. Rondo reportedly worked out in the weight room during the day then held a private late night workout on the floor which was the first time he touched a ball since the injury.

This tells me two things.....One, he was able to strength train without pain or else he wouldn't be out on the floor late at night working out which is huge as far as him attempting to play. Two, he and Hoiberg recognize how badly the Bulls offense sputters without him putting others in their comfort zone while the lack of ball movement makes it much easier for the Celtics to keep the Bulls off the offensive glass.

I don't know about tonight but I feel he'll definitely give it a go in Game 6 possibly off the bench to really electrify the arena and the team. Stuff like this makes sports fun.
 

BaseballJones

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Good one! I heard one of the talking heads say that fouling Rondo early was a good idea, not just to aggravate the injury, but also because he is such a bad free throw shooter even with a functional thumb.
I don't know if this would be considered underhanded, but whacking his right hand several times early ("reaching for the ball") would really make life difficult for him.
 

JCizzle

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I remember reading or hearing an interview with RR just the other day, probably from after G4, where he said that he couldn't even use a knife and fork. And now he can play??
A. He was exaggerating on Sunday (a different sort of "pulling a Roethlisberger")
B. He's lying now or engaged in some gamesmanship
C. He will suck in G5
C. Mike Gorman said on T&R this morning that he is basically always lying and engaging in head games.

If he does play, you need to force him to take FT nonstop as others have said.
 

smastroyin

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I don't know if this would be considered underhanded, but whacking his right hand several times early ("reaching for the ball") would really make life difficult for him.
It's what Dwayne Wade would do if he were playing against him. Take from that what you will.
 

Cesar Crespo

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C. Mike Gorman said on T&R this morning that he is basically always lying and engaging in head games.

If he does play, you need to force him to take FT nonstop as others have said.
If they use this strategy, half the Celtics will be in foul trouble by the 4th quarter. They pick up enough fouls against Jimmy Butler.
 

smastroyin

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If they use this strategy, half the Celtics will be in foul trouble by the 4th quarter. They pick up enough fouls against Jimmy Butler.
If we see James Young check in, we'll know his job.