Not having Brandin Cooks and Stephon Gilmore.Someone will have to explain the downside of keeping Malcolm Butler
Gilmore, unless he clones himself, cannot play both outside CB slots so I don't think it should impact Butler at ~$4m this year. I like Cooks a lot, but I'm not crazy about the idea of bringing in Gilmore only to ship Butler for Cooks right after. A lot of that is likely my affinity for Butler shining through combined with the mental picture of a Gilmore/Butler tandem.Not having Brandin Cooks and Stephon Gilmore.
Well, to be fair, having Butler and Gilmore aren't mutually-exclusive decisions.Not having Brandin Cooks and Stephon Gilmore.
Cost of keeping Hightower? I don't know, I'm confused as well.Someone will have to explain the downside of keeping Malcolm Butler
Long term they might be.Well, to be fair, having Butler and Gilmore aren't mutually-exclusive decisions.
Yeah, having $30m+ annually locked up in two CBs is not the best way to build a full roster of quality players.Long term they might be.
Except Butler will not sign his tender to facilitate a trade unless he feels NO will extend him.They're taking on less than 2 million in a Butler trade, they should be fine.
ExactlyExcept Butler will not sign his tender to facilitate a trade unless he feels NO will extend him.
Because they think Malcolm Butler is more capable of covering Julio Jones and DeSean Jackson one-on-one twice a year?I really don't understand this possible sequence of events from a Saints perspective. If they are going to trade Cooks for Butler and give the latter a big deal, why not just sign Gilmore or Ryan or Bouye instead and then trade Cooks for draft picks?
Because Butler's RFA status limits his leverage relative to those guys and thus will be willing to sign a smaller deal.I really don't understand this possible sequence of events from a Saints perspective. If they are going to trade Cooks for Butler and give the latter a big deal, why not just sign Gilmore or Ryan or Bouye instead and then trade Cooks for draft picks?
Maybe Gilmore, Ryan or Bouye don't want to go to a NO team that isn't very good? I know, if you throw enough money their way, you'll get one, but you have to have some limits. And maybe they view Malcolm as a better player than who think they can get in the draft with those draft picks they get for Cooks.I really don't understand this possible sequence of events from a Saints perspective. If they are going to trade Cooks for Butler and give the latter a big deal, why not just sign Gilmore or Ryan or Bouye instead and then trade Cooks for draft picks?
Maybe. I think that would be a minority opinion, though, especially vis-a-vis Gilmore and perhaps Bouye.Because they think Malcolm Butler is more capable of covering Julio Jones and DeSean Jackson one-on-one twice a year?
I think that is a good point but I'm not sure saving 1-2 million off the cap per year with a slightly smaller deal is worth what they might lose in draft pick compensation.Because Butler's RFA status limits his leverage relative to those guys and thus will be willing to sign a smaller deal.
If Butlers willing to do that wouldn't he stay as a Patriot?Because Butler's RFA status limits his leverage relative to those guys and thus will be willing to sign a smaller deal.
Plausible. Although Bouye seems to be headed to Jacksonville so he doesn't seem all that picky about his destination.Maybe Gilmore, Ryan or Bouye don't want to go to a NO team that isn't very good? I know, if you throw enough money their way, you'll get one, but you have to have some limits. And maybe they view Malcolm as a better player than who think they can get in the draft with those draft picks they get for Cooks.
Edit- changed up my scenario as they wouldn't sign a guy and draft a CB, most likely.
He can wait until April 22 the deadline for RFA's to sign offer sheets. If he doesn't feel the Saints will offer him a suitable extension, and if he doesn't want to play for them, then he can simply wait out, and likely throw a monkey wrench into the trade talks.Is Butler in a position to not sign his tender? He's made almost no money, he doesn't have millions at home to sit on.
I haven't seen any report that he's going to be unwilling to sign a tender that will more than quadruple what he made last season. You could be right, but he hasn't said even hinted at this from what I have seen. Do you have a link for this?He can wait until April 22 the deadline for RFA's to sign offer sheets. If he doesn't feel the Saints will offer him a suitable extension, and if he doesn't want to play for them, then he can simply wait out, and likely throw a monkey wrench into the trade talks.
Well, what if you are reasonably certain he will be signed to an offer sheet that you cannot match? If you can get something for him that is reasonably equivalent to the first round pick you would be getting next year, then I suspect you do it.Someone will have to explain the downside of keeping Malcolm Butler
I have not heard anything about his willingness to sign a tender. I was just explaining his options, as there seems to be a misunderstanding from time to time:I haven't seen any report that he's going to be unwilling to sign a tender that will more than quadruple what he made last season. You could be right, but he hasn't said even hinted at this from what I have seen. Do you have a link for this?
Edit: He has made about $1.5M in his career so far. Spotrac and OverTheCap are having difficulty keeping up with the traffic today.
He hasn't signed it yet. Do you think Butler's going to sign the tender just so he can be traded?I haven't seen any report that he's going to be unwilling to sign a tender that will more than quadruple what he made last season. You could be right, but he hasn't said even hinted at this from what I have seen. Do you have a link for this?
Edit: He has made about $1.5M in his career so far. Spotrac and OverTheCap are having difficulty keeping up with the traffic today.
I'm quite sure it's a 2017 pick unless the signing happens too close to the draft.Well, what if you are reasonably certain he will be signed to an offer sheet that you cannot match? If you can get something for him that is reasonably equivalent to the first round pick you would be getting next year, then I suspect you do it.
Maybe the Patriots would rather have Cooks than a mid- to late-first round 2018 pick.
What if the Saints are playing this completely straight up? "We're going to offer him 4/55, with 20 million guaranteed. We think we're going to be pretty good next year. Best case, you're looking at draft pick in the high teens and worst case you're looking at a draft pick in the 20s or 30s. So, that's the deal -- what do you want to do?" (The numbers are made up -- insert whatever number you need.)
If you know he's leaving anyway -- that is, you don't think the Saints are bluffing -- maybe a player you covet this year is better than a pick next year.
Why wouldn't he? He'd have to have a pretty good idea that the Saints want to pay him.He hasn't signed it yet. Do you think Butler's going to sign the tender just so he can be traded?
Except the pick would be in this year's draft, not nextWell, what if you are reasonably certain he will be signed to an offer sheet that you cannot match? If you can get something for him that is reasonably equivalent to the first round pick you would be getting next year, then I suspect you do it.
Maybe the Patriots would rather have Cooks than a mid- to late-first round 2018 pick.
What if the Saints are playing this completely straight up? "We're going to offer him 4/55, with 20 million guaranteed. We think we're going to be pretty good next year. Best case, you're looking at draft pick in the high teens and worst case you're looking at a draft pick in the 20s or 30s. So, that's the deal -- what do you want to do?" (The numbers are made up -- insert whatever number you need.)
If you know he's leaving anyway -- that is, you don't think the Saints are bluffing -- maybe a player you covet this year is better than a pick next year.
Soooooo...why would you think the pick is next year?Well, what if you are reasonably certain he will be signed to an offer sheet that you cannot match? If you can get something for him that is reasonably equivalent to the first round pick you would be getting next year, then I suspect you do it.
Maybe the Patriots would rather have Cooks than a mid- to late-first round 2018 pick.
What if the Saints are playing this completely straight up? "We're going to offer him 4/55, with 20 million guaranteed. We think we're going to be pretty good next year. Best case, you're looking at draft pick in the high teens and worst case you're looking at a draft pick in the 20s or 30s. So, that's the deal -- what do you want to do?" (The numbers are made up -- insert whatever number you need.)
If you know he's leaving anyway -- that is, you don't think the Saints are bluffing -- maybe a player you covet this year is better than a pick next year.
I'm quite sure it's a 2017 pick unless the signing happens too close to the draft.
Ah, ok. Well, then it doesn't work I guess -- you'd take pick 11 for sure over Cooks.Except the pick would be in this year's draft, not next
No I am with youI'm probably in the minority here but I'd rather trade Jimmy G than Butler
Sentimentality is a strong sword
sure if he's had conversations with them already.Why wouldn't he? He'd have to have a pretty good idea that the Saints want to pay him.
I know. Plus, too many cooks spoil the soup, and who's to say one isn't too many?No I am with you