Zizic at 23 and Bentil at 51 are weak? Man youre insufferable.I agree there. I voted "F", since I think almost every pick except Jackson was extremely weak, but grading someone poorly because they failed to get a non-existent trade is inane.
Zizic at 23 and Bentil at 51 are weak? Man youre insufferable.I agree there. I voted "F", since I think almost every pick except Jackson was extremely weak, but grading someone poorly because they failed to get a non-existent trade is inane.
So are you basically saying that the only way for this draft not to be a disaster is for Danny to guess right on which of the second/third tier players were going to be a superstar? That seems, well, unrealistic.That was a complete disaster until maybe pick 45-Jackson, and I even really like Brown (as a player/person, not an asset).
31+35 for 2019 Clippers via Memphis pick is an absolute loss of value.
If I'm wrong on Brown, this draft will be a disaster. Will have nightmares of the 16 pick for a while.
Zizic was picked when there were many other players I liked much more left on the board, such as Luwawu, or Davis. He's not a big upside guy from what I've read, and he doesn't profile well statistically. Bentil went 51st, so whatever. I agree, a whiff there doesn't matter.Zizic at 23 and Bentil at 51 are weak? Man youre insufferable.
Losers:
Boston: #3 Jaylen Brown, #16 Guerschon Yabusele, #23 Ante Zizic, #45 Demetrius Jackson, #51 Ben Bentil, #58 Abdel Nader
In fairness to Boston, the Celtics were in a tough position with 8 draft picks and a limited number of roster spots to accommodate them, but they handled the situation about as poorly as they possibly could have.
I am much higher on Jaylen Brown than most statistical models would suggest, and frankly if he was taken after Bender was off the board I’d rather like the pick. But taking him over Dragan Bender is a crucial error, and with a monster offer from Philly for Kris Dunn possibly on the table adds more sting to the choice. Then from there it only got worse.
It only made sense that the Celtics would stash some Euros with their picks, but in a draft rife with upsidey internationals, the Celtics managed to use their two other 1st round picks on players I rated as 2nd rounders. Then they traded 31 and 35 for a protected Clippers pick that is worth much less than the sum of those picks. 16/23/31/35 were the money shots in the draft and they collectively converted those picks to about 25% as much value as Morey did with 37/43/UFA.
Some picks were going to need to be sacrificed on stashes, but instead they are wasting their roster spots on Demetrius Jackson (who was decent value at #45, and could be a solid backup PG), and Ben Bentil at #51 (who had no business being drafted). Somehow they also drafted Abdel Nader at #58, and I can only assume it’s because he is willing to be stashed.
But there was so so so much potential for 16/23/31/35. They could have landed 16. Wade Baldwin, 23. Any of Luwawu/Korkmaz/Dejounte, 31. Onuaku, 35. McCaw/Qi/Zipser/Ragorac/etc and thrown their late picks along with James Young and Terry Rozier in the trash, but instead they trashed the valuable picks and are wasting roster spots on four guys who are collectively worth close to 0.
This draft was a massive failure on all fronts by the Celtics. You’d think with 8 picks there would be one trade or decision to be happy with as a fan, instead Danny Ainge delivered a series of compounding errors.
They would have until next draft to sign him if he didn't play anywhere else I believe.Does anyone know what would happen if (for example) the Cs drafted Korkmaz and Korkmaz wanted to come over to the States to play? Could the Cs tell him that he needs to stay in Europe or do they have to sign him to a guaranteed contract? I wonder if that had anything to do with passing on Korkmaz and Luwawu.
Brown will remind spectators of Jae Crowder, who's a fan favorite. He plays with that same relentlessness on defense, and at the moment he’s a similar player on offense by driving closeouts, getting into the paint, and finishing strong or drawing fouls.
There’s a myth that “Brown can’t shoot,” which has been being online and on the air throughout the entire draft process. Look, Brown isn’t Buddy Hield or Jamal Murray, but that doesn’t mean he “can’t shoot.” Please reserve “can’t shoot” for Ben Simmons.
Zizic has improved tremendously and projects as a high-energy big man who rebounds and finishes at the rim at an elite level. By the time Zizic was picked, though, fans had already checked out. TD Garden was a barren wasteland, with half-empty popcorn boxes and spilled beer on the floor being the only evidence that it was packed only hours earlier.
That’s because Yabusele forced them out.
Yabusele projects as a great fit in the new NBA since he can be used in small-ball lineups. He’s like a bulldozer rumbling down the lane with the explosiveness to dunk with power. But he can also shoot, at 42.6 percent this year (on only 61 attempts, so let’s continue to monitor sample sizes).
Notre Dame point guard Demetrius Jackson slipped all the way to 45 and Providence forward Ben Bentil went 51, though both were ranked as mid-first round talents by some executives across the league. Bentil’s fall isn’t totally surprising, but Jackson’s is stunning.
A source tells CSNNE.com that Jackson has no medical issues that caused his free fall, so he comes in with a clean bill of health. The Celtics already have plenty of guards, but Jackson gives them another good one to work with. He can play both on-ball and off-ball and he’s a pesky defender. Plus, he’s a superb athlete with a springy leaping ability that leads to plenty of highlight dunks.
Bentil is 21, but is just getting started with his development since he didn’t start playing basketball until late in his teens. His feel needs to improve, but he can shoot threes and score from all levels of the floor.
You might not realize it just yet, but the Celtics are better positioned for success than they were when the night started.
Well when you're that hard for Euro wings you're going to consider that a monster offer, especially when they were drafted with those exact picks.What is the "monster offer from Philly?" Noel and two late first rounders?
They drafted Eurowings bc they can stash not bc Danny had a hardon for them.Well when you're that hard for Euro wings you're going to consider that a monster offer, especially when they were drafted with those exact picks.
Demakis had this to say about PHX: "Phoenix could have completely bricked the rest of the draft after #4 and still won the draft after taking Bender 4th. While Bender has no guarantee of NBA success, his massive upside gives him franchise changing potential that none of the other #3-8 picks sniffed. Nailing a pick like this can make a franchise’s future when it works out, so Suns fans should feel great about the pick."From Demakis. It's not...kind.
I get this, since it does look like he has limited room to fill out, but I think it's less of a concern if you view him as primarily a perimeter player, albeit a huge one. Do you think DA/Stevens would've passed on Ingram at #3, given his frame?Demakis had this to say about PHX: "Phoenix could have completely bricked the rest of the draft after #4 and still won the draft after taking Bender 4th. While Bender has no guarantee of NBA success, his massive upside gives him franchise changing potential that none of the other #3-8 picks sniffed. Nailing a pick like this can make a franchise’s future when it works out, so Suns fans should feel great about the pick."
So basically he's saying that if BOS had taken Bender over Brown, they would have been fine. I get that statistics really dislike Brown but one thing that DA and Brad appear to have in common is that they are both looking for players who can physically withstand the NBA season. Bender doesn't have that.
I also find this idea that Bender's upside is so much higher than Brown or Dunn or Chriss to be, well, an outlier. Isn't Bender's best case scenario Kukoc?
Thanks for posting. Unsurprising words of wisdom from Chad.Here is a link to a good article by Chad Finn. I did not see it posted elsewhere here, apologies if it is a duplicate. Given some of the vitriol I have seen in Internet posting since the draft, I thought I would be a good read.
Basically and crudely restated, Finn is asking people to step back from the edge and take a breath or two. But he does it in a far more compelling fashion.
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2016/06/24/lets-watch-jaylen-brown-play
He was talking about Dean not Danny. Boston drafted a center and a power forward over the European perimeter players that Dean liked, which is why Dean considered Noel and two late firsts a "monster offer".They drafted Eurowings bc they can stash not bc Danny had a hardon for them.
Noel 24 and 26 is ok. Maybe they dont like Noel as a circamax player. Certainly did not need even more low value 1sts.
Can't stress this enough. College production doesn't necessarily equate to NBA success if the player doesn't produce in college by using skills that translate to the NBA. It goes the other way as well in the a college player possessing an ideal NBA skillset doesn't necessarily have the ability to best utilize those skills to produce in the college game. Two very different sports.Thanks for posting. Unsurprising words of wisdom from Chad.
It's not like we've never drafted someone who made a better pro than college player. It happens all the time, mostly because they are practically two different sports.
Yeah, Dean is interesting and sometimes has good insights, but he isn't a scout. He basically watches a few games and crunches the numbers. I think he does a good job evaluating upperclassmen because there is a good amount of data over multi-year careers. He's less good at evaluating Freshmen and Euro players.He was talking about Dean not Danny. Boston drafted a center and a power forward over the European perimeter players that Dean liked, which is why Dean considered Noel and two late firsts a "monster offer".
A word of caution on Dean though (I post on a board where he's a member), unless things have changed recently he bases his evaluations of European players on the YouTube reels (which is the reason I don't trust my evaluations of them, because that's all I can see). The video footage I've seen makes me cautiously optimistic about the guys they drafted, and if ihey're willing to stay overseas for a year or two, it can work out for Boston in terms of adding low-priced depth to a top heavy roster.
That's an interesting question but if there's a world out there where DA had the second pick and took Brown over Bender, it wouldn't surprise me, particularly after DA crossed Bender off his draft board. Ingram is pretty likely to be pretty good but it won't be for a couple of years I think and I think DA and Brad think Brown will be contributing more quickly.Do you think DA/Stevens would've passed on Ingram at #3, given his frame?
The case for Bender is that he can be much stronger defensively than Kukoc, because he's extremely quick laterally, and can guard multiple positions. With the increasing use of switches in the NBA, defensive versatility is increasingly important, so Bender profiles to potentially have plus defensive upside. Now, maybe you're right about his frame, but that's the upside case for Bender at least. Tony Kukoc as a plus defensive player at Center is a hall of famer.So basically he's saying that if BOS had taken Bender over Brown, they would have been fine. I get that statistics really dislike Brown but one thing that DA and Brad appear to have in common is that they are both looking for players who can physically withstand the NBA season. Bender doesn't have that.
I also find this idea that Bender's upside is so much higher than Brown or Dunn or Chriss to be, well, an outlier. Isn't Bender's best case scenario Kukoc?
They wouldn't have been happy at all. Celtics fans aren't mad they didn't trade up with their later firsts.Danger... Big time what if coming.
Ainge trades 16 and 23 to Milwaukee for 10 and selects Sabonis. We know Thon Maker would have maken it to 16 for the Bucks to select. Then, there was a small chance that one the Eurostash players, and God forbid, maybe even both of them, would have been there to select at 31 and 35.
How happy would Celtics fans have been at that? And how great would it have been... Damn what ifs...
I had no problem with the trade either. The Celts now potentially have three 2019 first rounders and are setting themselves up for the future when they don't need the picks in the present.I like the trade for the Clippers' future #1; second-round picks usually amount to nothing, the C's have roster constraints, and I don't think the Clips are super-likely to have back-to-back lottery seasons, even assuming CP3 is gone or over the hill by then.
That seems a good take. If that trade turns into a 15-20 pick that is pretty good especially with a roster full of young guys.I had no problem with the trade either. The Celts now potentially have three 2019 first rounders and are setting themselves up for the future when they don't need the picks in the present.
Paul (31) and Griffin (27) are potentially free agents after next year and Jordan (27) is potentially a free agent after 2017-18. The likelihood is that there will be a new core of players in place in LA for the 2018-19 season. Ballmer won't tank the team to get a high pick.